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A fool's paradox

TheMadFool June 02, 2017 at 05:26 11075 views 26 comments
''Living in a fool's paradise'' is a well known expression. It connotes the empty joy of an idiot, as seen by the ''wise''. The intent of the phrase can be further bolstered by the expression ''Ignorance is bliss''. Need I say more?

In sharp contrast to the general purport of the above is the supposed ''happiness'' that allegedly comes from knowledge and wisdom. Isn't that why we so feverishly seek both (knowledge and wisdom). Isn't that the whole essence of philosophy and surely, the sharp point of the spear of all human endeavor - be it science, religion, art, etc? Given how much ''progress'' has been made and how ''easier, comfortable, healthier, and happier'' life is now it would be foolish to argue against this view.

All that said, we have a ''paradox''. On one hand ignorance and the accompanying stupidity is a sure source of happiness and on the other hand knowledge and wisdom are also sources of happiness.

Perhaps this paradox is beautifully encapsulated in the famous words of Socrates: ''I know that I know nothing.'' His knowledge of his ignorance was his greatest achievement. How do we make sense of this?

Your views please...

Comments (26)

T Clark June 02, 2017 at 12:56 #73775
Quoting TheMadFool
All that said, we have a ''paradox''. On one hand ignorance and the accompanying stupidity is a sure source of happiness and on the other hand knowledge and wisdom are also sources of happiness.


No paradox. Irony maybe. Both willful ignorance and searching for understanding can have positive or negative results. There's a lot going on the world, so we have to pick what we are going to pay attention to. Being ignorant of large portions of existence is inevitable. Excessive observation, explanation, and interpretation can gum up the works. That is a vice many on this web site lean to. There is a healthy balance. It's different for different people.
TheMadFool June 03, 2017 at 05:52 #73993
Quoting T Clark
It's different for different people.


So, you're saying it's a matter of opinion - of a subjective character. Then why all the fanfare about philosophy? Why take the uphill road towards wisdom and knowledge when you could simply plop yourself at the bottom, in joyful ignorance?
Noblosh June 03, 2017 at 08:00 #74000
Reply to TheMadFool Philosophy is about making sense of the world, not about seeking happiness. With his iconic statement, Socrates rejects the validity of everything he knows so that he can engage in the perpetual search for knowledge that is philosophy.
TheMadFool June 03, 2017 at 08:33 #74002
Quoting Noblosh
Philosophy is about making sense of the world, not about seeking happiness.


But philosophy is defined as love of wisdom and love is an emotion which, as far as I know, brings happiness. I think no person would engage in philosophy without it being a happy occasion.
Chany June 03, 2017 at 14:27 #74078
Reply to TheMadFool

You're taking the literal definition of philosophy to be what it is about.

You're ignoring the plethora of philosophers who reach conclusions that we would not call happy. These type of philosophers believe what they do not because their beliefs make them happy, but because they cannot follow through with lying to themselves. You might start off with high hopes, but, for a lot of people, once you know reality, you cannot ignore that reality, even if reality is horrific.
TheMadFool June 03, 2017 at 14:44 #74087
Quoting Chany
You're taking the literal definition of philosophy to be what it is about


Perhaps I am but surely you do not believe that a person would engage in an activity that didn't in some sense give the agent a degree of happiness. The irony of course is that philosophers haven't yet found any good reason to be jumping for joy. Quite to the contrary there are many many reasons to be sad - suffering, disease, death, etc. This I think is the curse of any philosopher - to find the journey so exciting and enjoyable and the destination so disappointing. Given that is so I'm still an optimist. I think there's hope for us - we must continue to envision a bright future based on sound moral grounds and have faith in science. In the future (I don't know when) our world may have a place for the ''happy philosopher''.
T Clark June 03, 2017 at 15:20 #74092
Quoting TheMadFool
So, you're saying it's a matter of opinion - of a subjective character. Then why all the fanfare about philosophy? Why take the uphill road towards wisdom and knowledge when you could simply plop yourself at the bottom, in joyful ignorance?


What's different for different people is the balance between ignorance and examination. Different things work for different people.

Why all this fanfare about philosophy? Because we can't help ourselves. The only places there is any fanfare is where people like us congregate. Your question is like going to the Democratic convention and asking why everyone is so liberal.
T Clark June 03, 2017 at 15:23 #74094
Quoting TheMadFool
But philosophy is defined as love of wisdom and love is an emotion which, as far as I know, brings happiness. I think no person would engage in philosophy without it being a happy occasion.


Go through all the posts on the website. I would not call the general tone "happy." People who think too much tend to be a melancholy and self-involved bunch.
T Clark June 03, 2017 at 15:28 #74095
Quoting TheMadFool
But philosophy is defined as love of wisdom and love is an emotion which, as far as I know, brings happiness. I think no person would engage in philosophy without it being a happy occasion.


The etymology of the word "philosophy" is from the Greek for "love of wisdom", but that's not what the word means. Should we define it?
jkop June 03, 2017 at 16:04 #74104
Quoting TheMadFool
a ''paradox''. On one hand ignorance and the accompanying stupidity is a sure source of happiness and on the other hand knowledge and wisdom are also sources of happiness.


I think the first premise is false, ignorance is not a source but a lack of something, and you don't get something from nothing. The bliss in ignorance arises from a sense of continuity and peace, for instance, which hypothetically can be undermined by knowledge about threats or injustices.

The second premise is dubious, because not all knowledge is a source of happiness.

So, there is no paradox.
TheMadFool June 03, 2017 at 16:30 #74108
Reply to jkop You're just playing with words.

To get right to the point what did Socrates mean when he said ''I know that I know nothing''? In my humble opinion his greatest ''knowledge'' was realization of his own ignorance. My question is what made him happy? His ignorance or his ''knowledge'' of his ignorance? Or was he a sad man?
TheMadFool June 03, 2017 at 17:00 #74112
Quoting T Clark
Go through all the posts on the website. I would not call the general tone "happy." People who think too much tend to be a melancholy and self-involved bunch


What do you mean by ''think too much''? Did Socrates think too much?
T Clark June 03, 2017 at 18:27 #74130
Quoting TheMadFool
What do you mean by ''think too much''? Did Socrates think too much?


Would you question what I mean if I say "eat to much" or "drink too much?" People who eat to much tend to get obese, which has health consequences. People who think to much tend to focus on abstractions rather than experience of the physical and social world, which has psychological consequences.
woodart June 03, 2017 at 23:17 #74181
Reply to TheMadFool Philosophy is a process of discovery. It attempts to bring closure to an idea or concept. Philosophy can sometimes bring satisfaction, sometimes even happiness – but – there are no guarantees in the investigation for closure, satisfaction or happiness. Ignorance can sometimes be blissful, but most of the time I think it is just ignorant – and not a paradox.
TheMadFool June 04, 2017 at 04:13 #74234
Quoting T Clark
Would you question what I mean if I say "eat to much" or "drink too much?" People who eat to much tend to get obese, which has health consequences. People who think to much tend to focus on abstractions rather than experience of the physical and social world, which has psychological consequences.


I think there's a distinction to be made between eating/drinking too much and thinking too much. In the former ''too much'' has a meaning - there's danger in excess. However, in the latter ''too much'' lacks this meaning. The danger (if any) lies in the inevitable realization of contemplating our world (it's s sad). The activity of thinking is NOT harmful in and of itself. So, there's no such thing as thinking ''too much''
TheMadFool June 04, 2017 at 04:33 #74236
Reply to woodart Indeed. The universe is not obliged to make us happy.
T Clark June 04, 2017 at 04:43 #74237
Quoting TheMadFool
I think there's a distinction to be made between eating/drinking too much and thinking too much. In the former ''too much'' has a meaning - there's danger in excess. However, in the latter ''too much'' lacks this meaning. The danger (if any) lies in the inevitable realization of contemplating our world (it's s sad). The activity of thinking is NOT harmful in and of itself. So, there's no such thing as thinking ''too much''


The activity of eating is not harmful in and of itself. You don't think there is danger in excess thinking? I know from personal experience there is. I'm not the only one.

Chany June 04, 2017 at 05:48 #74238
Reply to TheMadFool

Some people do think too much, in the sense that they either 1)over-complicate existing issues or 2)completely block out competing views.
Mongrel June 04, 2017 at 13:35 #74379
Reply to TheMadFool I once paced back and forth all night long trying to figure out if the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was moral or immoral.

Out of it fell this notion of pre-event and post-event perspectives. Pre-event is characterized by Eros, a pure drive to live, and post-event is the domain of judgment and morality. I held to that outlook for years, but it started disintegrating in the light of Nietzsche.

I tell all this to explain that I didn't pace that night because I was reaching out for happiness. I didn't have any choice. The question had me in its hands. I was driven to try to understand.

And this is typical of the pre-event perspective: one is driven to act. Morality is about assessing how well it went. :)
Wosret June 04, 2017 at 13:45 #74385
Haven't we gorged ourselves enough on the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Judging and evaluating constantly without paying attention surely has no drawbacks.
Mongrel June 04, 2017 at 14:09 #74389
Judgement is one side and Understanding on the other. Spend too much time at either extreme and you become a nutcase.
TheMadFool June 05, 2017 at 02:27 #74713
Reply to T Clark Reply to Chany I agree that thinking ''too much'' which I'm translating as excessive physical exertion is harmful to bodily health. However, one doesn't need to think ''too much'' to get depressed. Even a leisurely contemplation of the human condition is enough to darken our mood. Which brings us to my main point - is it better (rationally) to remain in ignorant bliss or should we philosophize?
TheMadFool June 05, 2017 at 02:30 #74715
Reply to woodart Isn't this just another angle on the ''paradox'' of philosophy? While we seek knowledge because it is, to say the least, ''interesting'', the realization we attain after philosophy is not a brightly colored rainbow but a dark and gloomy place.
TheMadFool June 05, 2017 at 02:32 #74716
Quoting Mongrel
I tell all this to explain that I didn't pace that night because I was reaching out for happiness. I didn't have any choice. The question had me in its hands. I was driven to try to understand.


Perhaps you misunderstood yourself. As far as I can see one is driven by emotion - happiness and sorrow being prime motivators.
Mongrel June 05, 2017 at 02:38 #74717
Reply to TheMadFool I gather you've never been possessed.
TheMadFool June 05, 2017 at 02:57 #74720
Quoting Mongrel
I gather you've never been possessed.


:D