What is a dream?
What is a dream? Is it a story we tell ourselves while we are asleep? This seems like a more or less good hypothesis. So why do we tell ourselves stories? Do we want to send a message from our unconscious (subliminal) self to our conscious self? There is an assumption here that we have multiple selves. Do we have more than just two? What is a day dream? Is it some mechanism of wish fulfillment? Is a day dream a fantasy that we want to explore; while we are awake? Perhaps it is some kind of bridge between our conscious and subliminal self? Dreams can be pretty peculiar and/or abstract. Dreams can also be fairly mundane and run of the mill. I wonder why we dream – while asleep and during the day? Dreams can be powerful too. I remember the day my Father died – that night he came to me in a dream and said – “I love you”. That was it – short and sweet – I will never forget it.
There is also lucid dreaming - becoming conscious in a dream while we are sleeping. I have experienced this and it is powerful. Talk about going to the movies and/or virtual reality in your mind – this can be science fiction and pornography all rolled up into one. I remember a Buddhist or Hindu concept that all life is just a dream. Dreams are stories – maybe that’s all we have are stories. We are funny creatures – are we not?
So, why do we dream? Do you dream a lot or very little? Do you remember your dreams? I took a course once in how to record your dreams by keeping a journal and employing trigger techniques. I learned a lot about myself I did not know. Please tell us your dreams? What do dreams mean to you?
There is also lucid dreaming - becoming conscious in a dream while we are sleeping. I have experienced this and it is powerful. Talk about going to the movies and/or virtual reality in your mind – this can be science fiction and pornography all rolled up into one. I remember a Buddhist or Hindu concept that all life is just a dream. Dreams are stories – maybe that’s all we have are stories. We are funny creatures – are we not?
So, why do we dream? Do you dream a lot or very little? Do you remember your dreams? I took a course once in how to record your dreams by keeping a journal and employing trigger techniques. I learned a lot about myself I did not know. Please tell us your dreams? What do dreams mean to you?
Comments (41)
In summary, I think it can be explained mostly by scientific observations on brain activity during REM sleep stages.
Clearly dreams are not something which we have already experienced, they are completely made up, imaginary.
For example, a dream that I could have may be of close friend who had died a short time ago. I have seen that friend, I think about that friend, and subconsciously it become mixed into other things that I think about. An example may be a nightmare in that I watch my friend die in battle in a violent way; I know my friend is dead, and I have seen pictures of battles, and think about it. My friend did not die in battle, which in that sense it is imaginary. But a mixing of facts up into a vision seems likely to me. Adding to that, the changes in electrical currents of the brain during sleep to make us "feel" emotion that we might not have otherwise felt.
This agrees with the Continual-Activation Theory of Dreaming, a neurological explanation of memory consolidation during sleep, and dreaming as by-product.
Zhang, Jie (2004). Memory Process and the Function of Sleep. (6–6 ed.). Journal of Theoretics.
http://www.journaloftheoretics.com/Articles/6-6/Zhang.pdf
I don't thing my dreams come from fragments of previous experience. This is completely inconsistent with what I experience in dreaming. What I experience is mostly new experiences in my dreams, with just a few, but very few, fragments of previous experience. So for instance, your example of a dream about a loved one. Let's say the loved on is Fred. In the dream, Fred may look nothing like Fred, and not act at all like Fred, but only because my mind for some reason designates the person as "Fred", do I recognize this individual as Fred. But It's very clear to me that the dream does not consist of fragments of past experiences of Fred, because Fred in the dream is doing things which Fred would not normally do, and upon waking, I see that Fred in the dream, didn't even look like Fred in real life. So the question is why did my mind even think it is Fred who is doing these things?
There a concept of distorted reality in a dream - right? You are connected to your day (waking) world – reality – via Fred. Although Fred does not look or act like Fred. Do you distort Fred, in order to remake him? Is it your wish – desire – to change him? Or is it just an exercise in fantasy? Or both? Remember you love Fred – that is important. I assert – dreams have a purpose – what is it for Fred? We always want to alter our waking world – we are never satisfied – we are not content. Dreams express our discontentedness – distain – depression – desire – delusions – dependence – deliriousness – defensiveness. Are dreams our attempt to break out of prison? A jailbreak? I don’t act upon every fantasy in my real life – I am constrained. But I do in my dreams. Fred is loved, but also hated – it is complicated – is it not?
I think daydreams can be equated with mind wandering, or creative thinking.
Christoff, Kalina; Alan M. Gordon; Jonathan Smallwood; Rachelle Smith; Jonathan W. Schooler (2009-05-11).
http://www.pnas.org/content/106/21/8719.full.pdf
This is beautiful, thank you for sharing. Dreams are really hard to determine and I fear would fall on the individual experience to ascertain an explanation behind them; guilt, passions, emotions that you are attempting to articulate through abstract imagery. Indeed, from a Jungian perspective dreams reveal the language of the psyche and the subconscious, but sometimes dreams can also just be cognitive rubbish as your brain attempts to recover.
I had one dream not long ago - actually in August 2015 that is how powerful this dream was! - where I was lying on a grey couch and I had a son, a toddler aged maybe 3 or 4, a little blonde boy who was lying on top of me and hugging me really tightly. He was smiling and his eyes were closed as tightly as he hugged me while I was relaxed, also smiling with my eyes closed, as I wrapped my arms around him. I cannot describe to you the feeling that I felt in this brief moment in the dream, but it was like absolute love. It was genuine love, unconditional and I could sense the love from my son (or that boy in the dream as I don't have any children) as much as the love I felt for him that it was so overwhelming, I woke up hyperventilating as though the intensity of the feeling in this dream caused me to hold my breath. I could not shut up about it for weeks and in my whole life I have never felt what I felt in that dream. It was one simple image of me and a little boy but the feeling was just overwhelming.
I am not sure what that dream meant, again I have no children, but sometimes it may provide you with access to knowledge, for me maybe the knowledge of what real love could actually feel like, maybe it describes my unconditional loving attributes that is parallel to a maternalism (I work helping disadvantaged children). I don't know, in the end we have only our own interpretations to rely on and that requires reason and a genuine understanding of ourselves and our history.
I would say this is a truly "Holy" experience - you should treasure it forever.
I think it was a very good article. I learned things from it. However, I have some frustration in this thread and others. I can’t get people to respond to my thoughts – the way I want – it makes me sad/angry – what do I do? Should I accuse you of changing the topic, quibbling, dodging the point, of being an idiot. What if I am the idiot? In my dreams and thoughts maybe I am an idiot or you – or both. My dreams and thoughts may wander, but releases something relating to the real world. I am not sure of myself a lot while being awake. I am sure as hell - not sure of myself while dreaming. Dreams are uncertain for a reason – this is important. Life is not certain anywhere - anytime. Dreams help us to handle an uncertain life – with more uncertainty in dreams. Fighting fire with fire – the fire of uncertainty while dreaming.
In a state of sensory deprivation, these kinds of anticipatory images will develop into highly detailed - but fleeting and disconnected - states of perception themselves. At a rate of every half second, one image will replace another, with a loose associative knowledge.
That is why dreams seem a constant chase after meaning. You are still trying to make some kind of narrative sense of what is going on - fitting some tale to it. But as MU points out, Fred is never Fred as every passing image throws up a new scene.
On this view, vivid R.E.M. dreams serve no great psychic purpose. R.E.M. exists to stir up the brain to near waking state so you will be ready to go if something does wake you up. The images are just what the brain has to do - fill in the blanks - because it is designed to generate a constant flow of anticipations and those become vivid when actually answering sensation is absent.
You can catch that happen when you first fall asleep - hypnagogic imagery. The brain cuts off from the outside world and you immediately plunge into the bright light of some fantastical vision. But it lacks the narrative structure of a R.E.M. dream. That scrabble after explanation takes time to build its own confused history.
Although I do have memories of a few dreams that were quite nice. My desires were instantly gratified, I was powerful and perfect. I'm not talking about sexual stuff either. I was just content with myself. I think one of these positive dreams was of me teaching philosophy to students - I did not stutter like I do in real life, I did not get anxious or nervous. I was in my element and the students apparently loved me. It was nice.
Reminds me of the Freudian theory of dreams. Freudian psychoanalysis has a complicated reputation, not altogether positive, and for good reason. In fact his theories were essentially "metaphysical" despite his protests to the contrary. An interesting theory he articulated what that dreams were the method in which the unconscious seeks satisfaction. When we are conscious, we are given these needs and desires that throw us into a state of discomfort - the real world forces us to make choices and relegate resources to accomplish our goals. In a dream, however, we're not dealing with reality. We effectively make reality and because of this we can sometimes have very pleasant dreams in which the desires the unconscious produces are instantly gratified. There are more details, mostly related to time, that aren't entirely dissimilar to the metaphysical speculations of Schopenhauer, but I can't remember them right now.
Freud's meta-psychophysics might not be entirely correct, but it certainly makes it all too evident how the dreams we experience are sometimes better than the reality we live in. It's a metaphysical scheme that, like most metaphysical schemes, tells a story with a moral, which is more important than it actually being factually correct. It makes me wish I did dream more.
If there is little or no meaning or value in your dreams, then you are absolutely right – for yourself. However, don’t make the mistake of projecting this on to others. Most people find meaning and value in their dreams. If you do not have the eyes to see – OK – that is your prerogative.
I think a lot of the function of dreams is wish fulfillment. Also I think we practice in our dreams. I build things and many times I dream of solutions or near solutions to practical problems. Dreams can go outside the bounds of logic and sometimes this is exactly what we need to approach a problem or situation. It may not solve it, but it looks at it in a different way. Different eyes are what we get in dreams.
Quoting darthbarracuda
I mentioned earlier in this thread I took a course in how to record dreams. There are techniques to teach you how to wake up and write them down. Very powerful stuff and useful.
People find meaning and value in all sorts of experiences, whatever their source.
You don't have to see what @apokrisis said as contradicting your view. Your brain does stuff; you experience that in a certain way. What the brain does has side effects; you experience that too. There may be a "physiological purpose" of some kind to what goes on while you sleep; I think some researchers have also suggested it's the brain finishing processing the day, so that's a more "cognitive purpose," more directly related to your experience. Whatever it's doing can be a real and meaningful experience for you, especially since what it has to work with is mostly your life.
I do wonder how we could possibly resolve a conflict about the nature and meaning of dreams. Philosophers have had a hard enough time dealing with "intuitions." One place to start might be taking a closer look at what I casually described as "experiencing" your dreams. It's clearly way different from other sorts of experience we have.
I do not feel contradiction with apokrisis - I view my dreams differently and told him it was his prerogative to see it his way. There can be more than many truths. I really believe it is entirely subjective. There is no grand formula for interpretation and meaning. The value and purpose we place on dreams is totally subjective. Dreams mean what you think they mean – don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
In a sense, that's saying there's just nothing for philosophy to do here, and that's fine.
But maybe there is some stuff to get into here. Our non-dream experiences include a bodily component that others can (at least in principle) witness. And our bodies are not so dramatically different from each other that when we talk about those sorts of everyday experiences, we can assume a lot of that experience is similar. Often when someone says, "I know how you feel," that can be literally true.
Dreams, though, seem to be a unique class of experience. Even though our minds are broadly similar, just as our bodies are, the whole range of physical correlatives is missing. You get mentation naked, so to speak, and that seems like something philosophy, as well as psychology, would want a look at. Only you can't have that. All you get is people's reports.
Even if dreams were uniquely subjective, how could we know?
I don't know how to account for the type of compelling images that the brain sometimes serves up during dreaming--scenes that rise above all the other dreams we have had. Some other process is at work there, like as not.
I have this image of the brain putting bits of memories in specific (real, material) locations in the brain, and then linking them together, so that useful, cohesive information can be found, assembled, and handed up to the conscious mind. But, in the process, odd-ball bits are put next to each other and at that moment, an odd-ball bit of a dream is produced.
It's almost like in the absence of sensory input or (what usually passes for) conscious thought, you end up eavesdropping on (other parts/systems of) the brain going about its business, and you don't understand what the hell you're listening to.
(Just speculative chit-chat.)
I do not agree there is nothing for philosophy to do. We use philosophy to create stories – interpret things – define ourselves. We use philosophy to give structure to our lives. The lives we live awake and when we dream. Philosophy is our spirit guide. My thoughts and ideas are like spirits. I am also a spirit when I dream. I use philosophy to guide my vision. I am on a vision quest and I hope you are too.
I think it is so - we are forced to be flexible with our mind data and interpretation. We surf a wave of thought – sometimes we are on top of the wave awake – sometimes we are below the surface dreaming. We move in consciousness and many times we are not sure where we are going.
Quoting Srap Tasmaner
I like this thought. We spy on ourselves. We disconnect from parts of ourselves because it is weird or foreign – but we still observe. We have to because it is us. We try to bring the weirdness into our fold of understanding, but we are not always able to.
Scientific research with dreams is very nascent. I don’t necessarily want to change your ideas – I want to find out if you can add to mine. Teach us all – make us richer with understanding. I think there is more than one way to look at things – especially dreams.
Feel free to accuse me of anything you like. In turn, I could accuse you of answering your own questions and having an agenda which isn't interested in the acquisition of knowledge that contradicts your own opinions. For what purpose? To advertise: charlatan for hire, dreams interpreted here?
When it comes to thinking about a particular subject, I prefer to draw conclusions from the relevant science(s), imagine possibilities which are consistent with those conclusions, and then engage in speculative brainstorming. Navel gazing sessions rarely have any practical, problem-solving value.
The value and purpose we place on dreams is not totally subjective, given current research in neuroscience (an intersubjective activity). However; it's your prerogative to assign any meaning you like to dreams, consult palm readers and astrologers, partake in seances, etc. if that's part of your "vision quest". For many, however; philosophy is a knowledge quest.
I actually enjoy a lot of my dreams more than real life and the more I write them down the more real they appear when I sleep. I hope to gain greater control over them at some point.
I seem to have hit a cord with you. Your ire seems perked. Perfectly OK. If science is your church – good for you – sometimes it is mine too. However, I do not see all explanations there. For me science is a tool – many times useful – many times inadequate. Especially when considering philosophical issues – many times science is inadequate. Dreams can be understood partially with MRI, EEG, biochemistry, etc. – but I think not substantially. Too many variables – too many wildcards.
What is a vision quest? A quest for knowledge – a search for understanding – an attempt to draw a picture? Philosophy is a picture of the universe we see. Every picture is unique – every person has a different picture/idea of what the world is. Every dream makes a unique statement. Science endeavors to be objective – to pursue repeatable experiments. However, the interpretation of the repeatable data can be different – subjective. Dreams are an area where subjectivity rules. Science can help us with our dreams; but each individual interprets them as we see fit. Dreams can and do make people uneasy – perhaps this is true for you too. It is for me – sometimes.
I agree with you - and - I think they still are "predictive devices".
Quoting JupiterJess
You should try lucid dreaming techniques.
I meant they would have had greater evolutionary value than their current forum. The reason I say this is because dreams present adverse information that overtime could be confused as being something that happened. Perhaps they are evidence that evolution selects for what creates fitness rather than what is true but that seems to fit in with the evolutionary argument against naturalism. This fact about dreams is something I've wanted to discuss for some time. They are very odd in their current form.
I've tried Lucid dreaming techniques and they worked for a time. Eventually the prompts become ineffective. It's weirdly exhausting so I keep putting it off.
Interesting – so you think the current form of our dreams is different than our caveman ancestors? Do you think our caveman ancestors believed their dreams to be real? Did our caveman ancestors evolve more rapidly because they took their dreams more seriously? If we paid more attention to our dreams would it quicken our evolution? Are we ignoring an important accelerant to our evolution?
Quoting JupiterJess
What is the current form of our dreams? What did it used to be for our caveman ancestors? What is odd about our dreams today? I think many a modern man tends to avoid paying attention to their dreams. There is a lot of evidence to that effect in this thread. Are people afraid of what they dream? What are the consequences for people who ignore their dreams? What are the benefits for people who follow their dreams?
Quoting JupiterJess
I too grew tired of lucid dreaming – it is very exhausting. What are the benefits of lucid dreaming? Is there a downside?
This is said by Hamlet to himself when he thinks he is alone. He is asking himself if it is better to give up and die rather than facing his troubles but he is frightened that he will dream when he is dead and never get any peace from his earthly troubles. The speech starts with the even more famous “To be or not to be…” which is the ‘should I live or die?’ part.
(Oxford Learning)
Not cave folk, I'm thinking older than that.
What I mean is that some of the information would obviously be adverse. Let's say one dream has a predator killed and a few days later they mix up the dream and believe the predator is dead only for it to later kill them. This is what I mean when I say they are odd in evolutionary terms. All I can think is that dreams were different back then (had a different function) or the truth does not matter so much because it gave a fitness (encouragement?) that was beyond fact.
Yes, people can act on dreams now because we are all have an intuitive understanding of semiology and can differentiate information through self reflection. I do not know if the earlier animals were able to do that.
Quoting woodart
I do not know. I was interested in occult AP stuff at that time.
So you are thinking of our really ancient ancestors – before verbal language skills developed. Probably 200,000 years ago – I will call him protoman. I think you are on to something, but I can’t quite grasp it yet. His dreams were just image stories without a verbal narrative. Kind of like the silent movies without the reference to language. Dreams were locked into a time frame. There was no language except grunts and pointing. Protoman did not have clothes or weapons – lived in trees and under rocks for protection. Did dreams help him to evolve? Perhaps he dreamed of becoming the tiger with a warm coat for night and then shed the coat and transform back to human for daytime. The illusion of change gave rise to the motivation to change – become more. Protoman looked to his dreams and found “encouragement” to be more. Dreams opened the door to the room of imagination – fantasy – horror – death – delight.
I think dreams are key to our evolution – vision of what we will become. Dreams give us a different picture. The absurdity is important because it slaps us in the face. If dreams are just a replay of what happens during the day – what is the point? We need to be kindled. Dreams tell us we are both idiots and geniuses. Don’t we need that? Dreams are the wellspring of possibility. We need a story of what is over the horizon - so that we go over the horizon and find out what is there. Protoman left Africa 75,000 years ago – in search of something – we are starting on our quest off the planet – in search of what? We need to evolve as a species – and we need dreams in order to do it. Perhaps that is why other animals don’t evolve very much – because they don’t dream enough. Dreams that drive us crazy also motivate us to do radical things. Not all radical things are worthwhile; however, if one out of a thousand is beneficial to the species – the experimentation is important.
Quoting JupiterJess
I think lucid dreaming puts us more in the driving seat for our own evolution. It is hard to do, but I think worthwhile – I will redouble my efforts and start again.
There are also physical dangers when we don't get enough sleep. My view is fairly simple: dreams help the body to stay asleep and to rest. We need sleep and dreams are the body's way to help achieve this. Sometimes actual sounds and other sensory information from the environment can be incorporated into our dreams, so we can keep on sleeping. I don't consider the "meaning" of dreams to be very significant.
Dreams give us an alternative reality. Sometimes the alternative is really absurd – seemingly nonsense. However, there can be great value in the absurd – nonsense – abstraction. The value is not necessarily the nonsense, but the jolt to our thinking that the absurd gives us. To question reality is a good thing. I am not saying we should accept the absurd; but to take the information as grist for the mill. If I have a dream in which I kill a loved one with a machete; I should not wake and do it. However, I should examine why I would ever think that thought. Having that kind of dream should tell me something about my relationship with that loved one. Perhaps I also hate them – I should ask myself why. So my point is that this machete dream has value – value for good. I should learn from my dreams.
Absurd dreams don’t necessarily have to be emotional or violent – they can absurd solutions to problems or conditions. I can have a dream in which my vehicle runs out of fuel and I have no access to a gas station. In my dream I put grass in the fuel tank and keep on driving. Absurd, yes – but perhaps I am telling myself there is an alternative to gasoline. Perhaps this is the spark to create a vehicle that uses biofuel. Dreams take us out of reality for a reason – to expand our reality – to see over the horizon – to envision a new horizon. This is an important function.
I don't deny that the content of our dreams might sometimes reflect our fears or desires or whatever, but I don't consider this to be the main purpose of dreams. Personally, I find that I have stranger and more memorable dreams the more tired I am, which supports my view that the main purpose of our dreams is to keep us asleep. I don't believe that the main purpose of our dreams is to "tell us something," to "give us an alternative reality," to "jolt our thinking," to "expand our reality," or to help us find solutions to problems. Some of these may occasionally be a fortunate byproduct of some dreams, but it strikes me as too 'new age-y' or mystical or unscientific to consider this as their main function.
Can we agree that dreams tell us stories? If so, what is the purpose of these stories? Are some of these stories significant? I think so – do a google search about “discoveries made in dreams”. The results are astounding. Dreaming is not the only methodology we use for problem solving, but it certainly is an arrow in our quiver. We all do it – and – I agree it may help us to sleep better. Dreaming is a large part of our lives – it is not a waste of time - unless you ignore them – which is each individual's prerogative. Dreams have solved big problems; but for most of us – we deal in little problems. Dreams solve every day little problems – this is very significant.
I think so. An event that you dream of has the disjoint syntax of memories or stories told in our language, it appears in parts or fragments, and unlike a veridical perception a dream is about something that is elsewhere in time and space.