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Wisdom- understood.

Varde May 29, 2022 at 17:14 5175 views 40 comments
A wise man is boring to someone who is as wise as him; seeding wisdom to and from is intolerable- wisdom is disposable. There is wisdom, but there is also the possibility of greater wisdom; therefore, true wisdom is stillness- quietness- loudness and movement at the right time...

Wisdom is not knowledge, wisdom is above knowledge. Although the sky is blue, there are clouds of acknowledgements that encircle that matter; where it's blueness, it's sky-ness, the fact that it is, and more is accounted. Therefore, wisdom to do with quiddity of objects and subjects, and the quiddity of the why-query.

Why-queries are questions that are often associated with academic philosophy; why-queries are metaphorically, tools that philosophers use to delve deeper into data, allowing them to analyse deep quddity. Sometimes a why-query leads to unfulfilled quiddity that's data is abstruse- quiddity is then reshaped using personal intellect and what-queries.

What-queries are scientific questions; when a philosopher uses them, it's either a pre-scientific experiment to initiate philosophical thought(make sense of full data), or to dissect and reshape quiddity(make sense of partial data).

Wisdom is what philosophy produces using primarily why-queries and secondarily what-queries. What you learned here was science, and not philosophy; in the regard that it was primarily a what-query and secondarily, as of this statement, a why-query.

Comments (40)

alan1000 May 29, 2022 at 18:05 #702425
I think this is a very wise analysis.
Varde May 30, 2022 at 06:34 #702730
Reply to alan1000 thanks Al.
Agent Smith May 30, 2022 at 07:25 #702738
As per the Oracle of Delphi and Socrates, the quiddity of wisdom is awareness of (one's own) ignorance. That is, in a modern psychological sense, to possess insight into one's own condition (re temet nosce - know thyself as in know your place).

It is not in my place to comment further.
Varde May 30, 2022 at 07:30 #702739
Reply to Agent Smith beautiful agent Smith, just beautiful. Really cleared things up for me...
Agent Smith May 30, 2022 at 07:37 #702740
Quoting Varde
beautiful agent Smith, just beautiful. Really cleared things up for me...


:up:
180 Proof May 30, 2022 at 08:22 #702747
When reflectively foolish ...
Quoting 180 Proof
to seek what 'the wise' seek: not merely "to be wise", but understanding how to live – judge & practice – less unwisely (especially in circumstances where and when folly – misjudgment & malpractice – is easier

... like poor Sisyphus' yoga with the boulder Reply to 180 Proof.
Fooloso4 May 30, 2022 at 14:48 #702829
Quoting Agent Smith
As per the Oracle of Delphi and Socrates, the quiddity of wisdom is awareness of (one's own) ignorance.


I think there is more to Socratic ignorance than simply knowing or acknowledging that you are ignorant. The examined life is an inquiry into the question of how best to live in the face of ignorance of what is best.

Varde May 30, 2022 at 15:49 #702849
[reply="180 Proof;702747]

Yes, nice quote; it outlines understanding of wisdom- he also promotes that it's beneficent with professionally cut examples.

Philosophy is importantrl, especially at the beginning of man. Philosophers should be in the field of experts, and the wisdom they share to changes the world, more than anyone else.
Agent Smith May 30, 2022 at 17:31 #702891
Quoting Fooloso4
I think there is more to Socratic ignorance than simply knowing or acknowledging that you are ignorant. The examined life is an inquiry into the question of how best to live in the face of ignorance of what is best.


Nirvana fallacy?
Fooloso4 May 30, 2022 at 17:57 #702898
Quoting Agent Smith
Nirvana fallacy?


I'm not sure I know what you mean. Despite the mythology of transcendence in the Republic, the Phaedo, and elsewhere, I think Socratic philosophy is grounded in the world of everyday experience.
Jackson May 30, 2022 at 18:00 #702900
Quoting Fooloso4
I think Socratic philosophy is grounded in the world of everyday experience.


How does one experience the forms? I can know particular things about justice, but how does one experience the form of justice?
180 Proof May 30, 2022 at 18:02 #702903
Quoting Fooloso4
The examined life is an inquiry into the question of how best to live in the face of ignorance of what is best.

:fire:
Agent Smith May 30, 2022 at 18:02 #702904
Quoting Fooloso4
I'm not sure I know what you mean. Despite the mythology of transcendence in the Republic, the Phaedo, and elsewhere, I think Socratic philosophy is grounded in the world of everyday experience.


Pragmatic philosophy! Yay!
Fooloso4 May 30, 2022 at 20:10 #702993
Quoting Jackson
How does one experience the forms?


You don't.

Quoting Jackson
I can know particular things about justice, but how does one experience the form of justice?


Hence Socrates profession of ignorance,

Jackson May 30, 2022 at 20:10 #702994
Quoting Fooloso4
Hence Socrates profession of ignorance,


I don't find that inspiring.
Fooloso4 May 30, 2022 at 20:12 #702998
Quoting Jackson
I don't find that inspiring.


Which do you think is preferable, to think you know what you do not know or to know you are ignorant?
Jackson May 30, 2022 at 20:14 #703002
Quoting Fooloso4
Which do you think is preferable, to think you know what you do not know or to know you are ignorant?


False modesty. I know what I know and act on it.
jgill May 30, 2022 at 20:20 #703011
Not knowing the existence of unknowns can trip one up.
Jackson May 30, 2022 at 20:21 #703012
Quoting Fooloso4
Which do you think is preferable, to think you know what you do not know or to know you are ignorant?


My criticism of Plato is that he reduces the universe to knowledge claims. That the universe itself is a form of knoweldge.
Tom Storm May 30, 2022 at 20:48 #703019
Quoting Fooloso4
I think there is more to Socratic ignorance than simply knowing or acknowledging that you are ignorant. The examined life is an inquiry into the question of how best to live in the face of ignorance of what is best.


The first part of this is intriguing. Knowing you are ignorant (in the Socratic sense) is more than just passive incomprehension. Is it not also knowing the kinds of questions and matters you are unable to answer or resolve easily for yourself or others? There is insight and depth to this illumminated or educated ignorance that exceeds everyday dimwittery.
Fooloso4 May 30, 2022 at 20:55 #703024
Quoting Jackson
False modesty. I know what I know and act on it.


Well, it is not false modesty in so far as he attributes ignorance to all of us.

Have you ever changed your mind about anything you regard as just or unjust?

There are many who make the same claim about knowing and acting who claim to know and act on things contrary to you.

Socrates acted in accordance with what seemed to him to be just, but was willing to change his mind given an argument he found persuasive or evidence that he was wrong.

Quoting Jackson
I don't find that inspiring.


Plato took the problem of inspiration very seriously. Countless people have been drawn to philosophy through Plato's myth of transcendence. Only it would be far less convincing if it were presented as a myth instead of something closer to an initiation into mystical knowledge. That it is a myth is something that many reject. They see it either as a wrong theory or the truth itself.

Quoting Jackson
My criticism of Plato is that he reduces the universe to knowledge claims. That the universe itself is a form of knoweldge.


I do not think he reduces the world to knowledge claims, but rather, he gives us reason to be skeptical of such claims. The problem is what he calls in the Phaedo, misologic, a hatred of reasoned argument, a form of nihilism. It is to guard against this that he tells stories of transcendent knowledge.But for those who look more closely, he also points to the inadequacy of the Forms.

I have discussed this

Here

and

Here

and elsewhere, including my commentaries on Phaedo

and Euthyphro which is also germane to the problem justice and acting on assumed knowledge.
Fooloso4 May 30, 2022 at 20:59 #703026
Quoting Tom Storm
Is it not also knowing the kinds of questions and matters you are unable to answer or resolve easily for yourself or others?


I think so. When I was teaching, many students, like Socrates interlocutors,became confused and were aware of their ignorance. But, of course, they were not thereby made as wise as Socrates.
Jackson May 30, 2022 at 21:29 #703043
Quoting Fooloso4
Socrates acted in accordance with what seemed to him to be just, but was willing to change his mind given an argument he found persuasive or evidence that he was wrong.


That seems pretty normal.
Jackson May 30, 2022 at 21:31 #703044
Reply to Fooloso4

I am more Aristotelian. Plato is too romantic and false for me.

And as an artist, Plato's bashing of images is offensive.
Fooloso4 May 30, 2022 at 23:03 #703106
Quoting Jackson
Socrates acted in accordance with what seemed to him to be just, but was willing to change his mind given an argument he found persuasive or evidence that he was wrong.
— Fooloso4

That seems pretty normal.


But not of one thinks they already know what is and is not just.
Jackson May 30, 2022 at 23:05 #703109
Quoting Fooloso4
But not of one thinks they already know what is and is not just.


Arrogance. A psychological problem.
Fooloso4 May 30, 2022 at 23:07 #703111
Quoting Jackson
I am more Aristotelian. Plato is too romantic and false for me.


I agree with Nietzsche regarding the importance of taste for one's philosophy.

Quoting Jackson
And as an artist, Plato's bashing of images is offensive.


This must be considered in light of his pervasive use of images.
Jackson May 30, 2022 at 23:08 #703114
Quoting Fooloso4
This must be considered in light of his pervasive use of image


No, words are not images.
Jackson May 30, 2022 at 23:09 #703115
Quoting Fooloso4
I agree with Nietzsche regarding the importance of taste for one's philosophy.


I do not understand what you mean.
Fooloso4 May 30, 2022 at 23:10 #703117
Quoting Jackson
Arrogance. A psychological problem.


For both Plato and Aristotle psychology or matters of character are not separate from but rather a part of philosophy.
Jackson May 30, 2022 at 23:12 #703119
Quoting Fooloso4
For both Plato and Aristotle psychology or matters of character are not separate from but rather a part of philosophy.


Ok, but not my point.
Fooloso4 May 30, 2022 at 23:12 #703120
Quoting Jackson
No, words are not images.


They are not visual images although something like the image of the cave continues to lead us to create our own images.
Jackson May 30, 2022 at 23:13 #703122
Quoting Fooloso4
the image of the cave continues to lead us to create our own images.


Again, do not understand what that means.
Jackson May 30, 2022 at 23:17 #703125
In the myth of the cave, Plato is describing silhouettes, not images. An object is projected by a light source onto a flat screen.
Plato in incredibly naive about how images and visual perception works. And I do not mean the neuroscience of perception.
Fooloso4 May 30, 2022 at 23:45 #703135
Quoting Jackson
I agree with Nietzsche regarding the importance of taste for one's philosophy.
— Fooloso4

I do not understand what you mean.


Your preference for Aristotle based in part on your finding Plato too romantic I take to be a matter of taste.

Quoting Jackson
Ok, but not my point.


Arrogance is not simply a psychological problem, it is a philosophical problem, it has an influence on our thinking.

Quoting Jackson
In the myth of the cave, Plato is describing silhouettes, not images.


The cave is said to be "an image of our nature in its education and want of education". (514a)

The shadows on the cave wall are referred to as images. The shadows on the cave wall are also referred to as images. An image is a likeness. We can often tell what a thing is by seeing its shadow because the shadow is a likeness. The cave dwellers mistake these shadow images for the things they are images of. Understandably because all they have ever seen is images or likenesses of things, not the things themselves.

The "image makers" include those who shape public opinion. Homer', for example, gives us images of those who are brave, just, and noble. These images are, for many taken to be what it means to be brave, just, and noble. The poets also gave them their images of the gods, and again, they are not taken to be images but who and what the gods are.




Jackson May 30, 2022 at 23:46 #703136
Quoting Fooloso4
Your preference for Aristotle based in part on your finding Plato too romantic I take to be a matter of taste.


I don't. I take it to be about philosophy and truth.
Jackson May 30, 2022 at 23:48 #703137
The cave is said to be "an image of our nature in its education and want of education". (514a)[/quote]

By image I mean an actual spatial thing. Your sense is also used, but I do not mean it that way.
Varde May 31, 2022 at 04:48 #703227
My work was very rough, albeit, more than just what and why enquires, but oh well- too late now- guess it's your go.
Varde May 31, 2022 at 04:55 #703231
Reply to Jackson I would say that words are a gestalt, to compliment ordinary sign and symbology and propel us into a more futuristic state of being.

I would agree with you- on the face they are images.

When we talk vocally in word it is a reminder of those lines that we had written in school(a a a, b b b...) and our connection to that rotary in the present- it is still an image but a very subliminal one.

There is also a sound aspect to words, the chomping of normal thought frequencies and the placidity of silence in a worded mind; which can be beneficent but my no means should it overtake sign and symbology (it had already but it can be reversed; I'm not saying get rid of words but at least understand their gestalt usage).

180 Proof May 31, 2022 at 05:03 #703236
[quote=Daniel J. Boorstin]The greatest obstacle to [learning] is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.[/quote]
For example Reply to Jackson. :eyes: