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Ernst Bloch and the philosophy of hope

Tate May 24, 2022 at 21:46 7250 views 39 comments
This video is an introduction to the principle of hope championed by Ernst Bloch.

The setting is a world in which fascism seems more rational than hope, and where hope for the future has been destroyed by events of the 20th Century.

It's about what it means to relearn the concept and practice of hope.

Comments (39)

Angelo Cannata May 24, 2022 at 22:08 #700381
I would say that Bloch’s idea of hope, without making hope an exact aim, has its root on Heraclitus’ idea that everything is becoming. Heraclitus’ idea is very primordial, of course, but then there is Heidegger saying that being should be conceived strictly connected to time: what is being and time other than, essentially, becoming? Obviously, Heidegger’ philosophy is much closer to humanity. Heidegger’s being towards death seems quite the opposite of Bloch’s hope, but I think the Heidegger’s idea about death is not an essential pessimism; rather, it is humanity.
We shouldn’t ask Bloch what to hope for, because, since it is quite a basic and abstract principle, it must remain rather undefined. But we can ask: why hope? I would say: because it is already in our humanity. If we cultivate it, we are just developing something already working inside us. We just need to build better criterions to make it fruitful as much as possible.
Deleted User May 24, 2022 at 22:17 #700382
Quoting Tate
Ernst Bloch


I don't have much to contribute here but I have the book in my library and enjoy picking it up from time to time. I hope I can devote more time to it in the future. Good to know it's still read. :smile:
Tate May 24, 2022 at 22:46 #700388
Quoting ZzzoneiroCosm
don't have much to contribute here but I have the book in my library and enjoy picking it up from time to time


You could absorb the ideas through your fingers.

Two takeaways I saw were:

1. Utopia is not a prize at the end of the journey. It's the journey itself.

2. When you have flashes of world that could be, you're witnessing what could be, but is not yet. You're part of the way that vision comes I to being, with everything you do and say.

Deleted User May 24, 2022 at 23:49 #700399
Quoting Tate
When you have flashes of world that could be, you're witnessing what could be, but is not yet.


It's my view that the Utopian vision is central to psychospiritual growth.


Not much else to say. Maybe I'll spend some time with the book this summer and have something more to contribute.

It'll be interesting to see if there are any others on the forum who've taken an interest in his work.

180 Proof May 25, 2022 at 04:53 #700442
"There is an infinite amount of hope in the universe ... but not for us." ~Franz Kafka

Reply to Tate Hope is an absurd (imaginary) response to fear. Courage is the absurdist (performative) response to fear. The latter overcomes 'the utopian consolations' (temptations) of the former.
Agent Smith May 25, 2022 at 05:57 #700452
[quote=180 Proof]"There is an infinite amount of hope in the universe ...
but not for us." ~Franz Kafka

?Tate Hope is an absurd (imaginary) response to fear. Courage is the absurdist (performative) response to fear. The latter overcomes 'the utopian consolations' (temptations) of the former.[/quote]

Depressing! :groan:

In my humble opinion, hope is an indispensable part of trust which itself is integral to society's very existence.

We've managed, to some extent, outgrow these, unfortunately, extremely unreliable social entities (hope and trust), preferring instead to adopt interactions among ourselves such as tit-for-tat and/or quid pro quo, very effective methods of keeping us all living together in peace and harmony as it were.

Society, despite appearances, isn't built on cooperation as I once thought; it is kept intact by being open/candid about how untrustworthy and how misplaced our hope is.

Nevertheless, being hopeful and trusting still give us that warm, fuzzy feeling we encounter in the numinous, the sublime; it is, in that sense, divine in nature (In God we trust). We mustn't neglect it, we must cultivate, we must respect and honor it; this ain't easy, the journey will be a litany of disappointments and failures, but there's an unspoken/unwritten rule that states if it's hard, it's good.
180 Proof May 25, 2022 at 06:03 #700454
Quoting Agent Smith
In my humble opinion, hope is an indispensable part of trust which itself is integral to society's very existence.

"Trust, but verify." ~Ronald Reagan
Agent Smith May 25, 2022 at 06:06 #700457
Quoting 180 Proof
"Trust, but verify." ~Ronald Reagan


That's the kinda talk that separates the wheat from the chaff! :fire:
Tate May 25, 2022 at 15:13 #700562
Quoting 180 Proof
Hope is an absurd (imaginary) response to fear


Bloch would agree, I think. He was addressing a world in which anxiety had turned to fear that was close at hand (post Nazi Germany). Imagination was definitely the tool for dealing with it.

Quoting 180 Proof
is the absurdist (performative) response to fear. The latter overcomes 'the utopian consolations' (temptations) of the former.


For Bloch, utopia is a journey, not a place. It means being engaged.
180 Proof May 25, 2022 at 18:16 #700652
Reply to Tate Interesting. Clarification appreciated.

But wasn't Das Tausendjährige Reich also an "utopian" project? :brow:
Deleted User May 25, 2022 at 18:46 #700667
Quoting Tate
For Bloch, utopia is a journey, not a place. It means being engaged.


This is inspiration to spend more time with this unusual book.

Would you be willing to expand on the notion of utopia-as-engagement? As a generalization, it would likely include, say, a mass murderer plotting his bloodbath. His would be a state of profound engagement.

Deleted User May 25, 2022 at 18:53 #700674
Quoting Tate
For Bloch, utopia is a journey, not a place. It means being engaged.


I have volumes one and two. I wonder if you have a reference for this idea. Thanks!
Tate May 25, 2022 at 19:31 #700700
Quoting ZzzoneiroCosm
Would you be willing to expand on the notion of utopia-as-engagement? As a generalization, it would likely include, say, a mass murderer plotting his bloodbath. His would be a state of profound engagement.


He was a Marxist, so he was specifically thinking of political engagement. He thought it was a mistake for Marxism to become disengaged like society's useless appendix.

But I'm not an expert on Bloch at all. In fact while reading about him, I ended up down a rabbit hole of Jakob Bohme.



Deleted User May 25, 2022 at 19:32 #700702
Quoting Tate
Jakob Bohme.


His is a fine rabbit hole to spelunk.

Deleted User May 25, 2022 at 19:33 #700703
Quoting Tate
political engagement.


gotcha
Jarjar May 26, 2022 at 13:18 #700999
Quoting 180 Proof
But wasn't Das Tausendjährige Reich also a "utopian" project? :brow:


"Speer, du bist ein groß Architect. Tausende Stunden haben wir verpasst mit dieser herrliche Macquete. Keine Wolkenkratzer oder Hotels, aber ein Mttelpunkt. Ein Schatzzimmer voll Kultur. Das Volk braucht so ein Mittelpunkt. Diese Macqette zeigt wie es sein soll. Ein große Dom ins Mitten. Marmor Palazzen mit Kunst und Kultur. Das Germania für kommende tausend Jahr. Das ist mein Traum und das bleibt mein Traum!"
Deleted User May 26, 2022 at 13:30 #701001
Reply to Jarjar "Speer, you are a great architect. We missed thousands of hours with this magnificent Macquette. No skyscrapers or hotels, but a center. A treasure room full of culture. The people need such a center. This Macquette shows how it should be. A big one Cathedral in the middle. Marble palaces with art and culture. The Germania for the coming thousand years. That is my dream and that will remain my dream!"

Macquette - French - "scale model"


Courtesy of Google translate


Berthold Konrad Hermann Albert Speer (/?p??r/; German: [??pe???] (listen); 19 March 1905 – 1 September 1981) was a German architect who served as the Minister of Armaments and War Production in Nazi Germany during most of World War II. A close ally of Adolf Hitler, he was convicted at the Nuremberg trials and sentenced to 20 years in prison.

wiki
Jarjar May 26, 2022 at 13:53 #701005
Reply to ZzzoneiroCosm

Exactly! Saw it in "der Untergang". Not the exact words. But more or less. The thousand year Reich...
Deleted User May 26, 2022 at 13:56 #701006
Quoting 180 Proof
But wasn't Das Tausendjährige Reich also a "utopian" project?



Absolutely. The purity of the Utopian Light at times points to genocidal cleansing as the fast track to heaven. An ugliest Marriage of Heaven and Hell.

Jarjar May 26, 2022 at 15:42 #701038
Quoting ZzzoneiroCosm
The purity of the Utopian Light at times points to genocidal cleansing


The Purifying Utopian Light used to Cleanse the dirt... To wipe it away with Zyclon B, the final solution in the final Wannsee analysis. To be applied in a refreshing shower...

Jesus Fucking Christ and Mother Mary... What image... :scream: :death:

Indeed heaven and hell in an unlucky marriage.
Tate May 26, 2022 at 16:08 #701057
Quoting ZzzoneiroCosm
Absolutely. The purity of the Utopian Light at times points to genocidal cleansing as the fast track to heaven. An ugliest Marriage of Heaven and Hell.


Maybe that's what happens when all hope for redeeming this world is lost. The only way for the world to be made right is to destroy it all and make it over.

The catastrophe that transports the faithful to a new earth. Apocalypse Now.

javra May 26, 2022 at 23:39 #701234
Quoting Tate
Maybe that's what happens when all hope for redeeming this world is lost.


I enjoyed the video in the OP. Thanks.

There’s a reliance in the video on a specific form of hope that, tmk, remains unmentioned.

There’s the hope for increased happiness via increased quantity of peace, love, and understanding among humankind. The aim being more akin to a utopia obtained via means of democratic rule: a self-sustained, relatively stable, global community that is devoid of authoritarian governance sort of thing.

Then there’s hope of increased happiness via increased status of top dog over all other(s), or of being under the auspices of such. Here the aim being more akin to a utopia obtained via means of autocratic rule ... of which the Nazi ideology was a quite poignant example of - as for that matter was/is the Stalinist perversions of communism as philosophy.

We of our own impetus often cynically snide at hope for the first outcome, both personally and collectively. And this breads hope for the second. Needless to add, this at the detriment of the former.

Thought this appropriate (A Perfect Circle: "(what's so funny 'bout) peace love and understanding"):



Quoting Tate
The only way for the world to be made right is to destroy it all and make it over.


Nah. We'd likely start all over from bacteria, again moving forward evolutionary through pains and pleasures, only to arrive at the same crossroads we are living in today as a species of sapient beings. Better to aim forward. :wink:

Tate May 27, 2022 at 02:29 #701297
Quoting javra
We of our own impetus often cynically snide at hope for the first outcome, both personally and collectively. And this breads hope for the second. Needless to add, this at the detriment of the former.


True. Part of the power of fascism is that it's rooted in myth and it discredits reason. Dry Marxism can't compete. It seems more reasonable to people to expect fascism than to hope for leftism.

Bloch is starting to fascinate me because he dove into religion and fairy tales as part of "practicing utopia."

Quoting javra
Nah. We'd likely start all over from bacteria, again moving forward evolutionary through pains and pleasures, only to arrive at the same crossroads we are living in today as a species of sapient beings. Better to aim forward


I was just paraphrasing despair: when the only door to hope is giving up.

Tate May 27, 2022 at 16:44 #701551
The Spirit of Utopia:

PDF version
Tate May 31, 2022 at 18:00 #703520
Bloch was a staunch supporter of Stalin up until Kruschev's denouncement of the monster.

Somehow that's part of his philosophy of hope, isn't it?
Agent Smith June 01, 2022 at 05:39 #703695
Hope, to my reckoning, is how we respond to/deal with uncertainty; it usually consists of ethical expectations (I hope she's fine) but not necessarily so (I hope the guard doesn't notice us). The OP is, in all likelihood, about hope of the former kind (good hope) and not the latter (bad hope).

Hope then is a mashup of quasi-fatalism (we don't control all aspects of our lives) + optimism (success is ensured).
180 Proof June 01, 2022 at 06:14 #703706
'Hope' is just lipstick on a nightmare.
Tate June 01, 2022 at 12:28 #703819
Quoting 180 Proof
Hope' is just lipstick on a nightmare.


You don't hope for anything?
Agent Smith June 01, 2022 at 14:46 #703858
[quote=Tate]You don't hope for anything?[/quote]

Hope or Cope? :snicker:
180 Proof June 01, 2022 at 16:52 #703922
Reply to Tate I try not to, especially in Bloch's sense.
Tate June 01, 2022 at 17:56 #703937
Quoting 180 Proof
I try not to, especially in Bloch's sense.


You're either delusional or enlightened, but too cryptic to tell.
180 Proof June 01, 2022 at 18:25 #703957
Reply to Tate Not as "cryptic" as your statement. I think my meaning is clear Reply to 180 Proof.
180 Proof June 14, 2022 at 05:26 #708506
Quoting Agent Smith
Depressing! :groan:

An anecdotal snippet from "the hard problem" of depression ...

:death: :flower:
[quote=Albert Murray]We invented the blues; Europeans invented psychoanalysis. You invent what you need.[/quote]
Agent Smith June 14, 2022 at 05:50 #708509
[quote=Tate]You're either delusional or [U]enlightened[/u], but too cryptic to tell.[/quote]

@180 Proof [math]\uparrow[/math] :snicker:


Depression, not something I'd recommend (even to my arch foes), especially the kind that makes you want the earth to swallow you up and put an end to your misery.

Hope, not to contradict you, seems to be a normal reaction to uncertainty and I'm not sure you'll agree but hope for the best but prepare for the worst. :snicker:

Interesting video!
180 Proof June 14, 2022 at 05:53 #708510
Quoting Agent Smith
hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

aka courage Reply to 180 Proof – K.I.S.S. :smirk:
Agent Smith June 14, 2022 at 05:55 #708513
Quoting 180 Proof
aka courage ?180 Proof – K.I.S.S. :smirk:


:ok:
Agent Smith June 14, 2022 at 05:58 #708514
Reply to 180 Proof

Did you get hurt or rather did Franz Kafka get burnt...hoping for something that never came to pass?

Hope for the best but prepare for the worst is a rather natural if only illusory (the antecedent) reaction to entropy and (good) luck - a blend of optimism & pessimism, I like it. Do you?
180 Proof June 14, 2022 at 06:01 #708515
Reply to Agent Smith Amor fati. :fire:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/708510

Agent Smith June 14, 2022 at 06:09 #708518
Reply to 180 Proof Amor fati, mon ami, amor fati! :fire: