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Amorality Does Not Exist - Ortega

Deleted User May 13, 2022 at 14:56 5300 views 27 comments
Studying Ortega's Revolt of the Masses, I stumbled on a curious question for ethicists:

Is there such a thing as amorality?

[quote=Ortega - Revolt of the Masses, p. 189]What [ ] is called amorality is a thing that does not exist. If you are willing to submit to any norm, you have, nolens volens, to submit to the norm of denying all morality, and this is not amoral but immoral.[/quote]

Comments (27)

Jackson May 13, 2022 at 14:59 #694718
Quoting ZzzoneiroCosm
Is there such a thing as amorality?


Not every action we take is about morality.
Deleted User May 13, 2022 at 15:06 #694719
Quoting Jackson
Not every action we take is about morality.


That sounds right. Especially as regards necessities: eating, peeing, pooping. These I would call amoral.

Apart from necessities, it seems you would have to consider the opportunity cost of each action - and there a moral dimension may be discovered. For instance, just sitting there might look amoral. But considering that the time you spend just sitting there could be invested in helping other persons in some way (opportunity cost), a moral element is introduced.

Jackson May 13, 2022 at 15:07 #694720
Quoting ZzzoneiroCosm
But considering that the time you spend just sitting there could be invested in helping other persons i


Why do I have to help other persons?
Deleted User May 13, 2022 at 15:12 #694721
Quoting Jackson
Why do I have to help other persons?


You don't. But the notion is at the heart of morality and ethics.
Jackson May 13, 2022 at 15:13 #694722
Quoting ZzzoneiroCosm
You don't. But the notion is at the heart of morality and ethics.


Christianity? What else?
javi2541997 May 13, 2022 at 15:14 #694723
Quoting Jackson
Why do I have to help other persons?


You don’t. But the society or the masses would impose you that if you do not do so, you would be amoral.
Jackson May 13, 2022 at 15:16 #694726
Quoting javi2541997
But the society or the masses would impose you that if you do not do so,


Not following. How do they impose?
javi2541997 May 13, 2022 at 15:18 #694727
Quoting Jackson
How do they impose?


Through political lobbies and social media. Imagine: some individual records me not helping a homeless man in the train. What would you think of me? And the masses as an overall?
Deleted User May 13, 2022 at 15:18 #694728
Quoting Jackson
What else?


Just the general way people feel about action in the world. Possibly rooted in Christianity. I'm not knowledgeable (or interested) enough to point you to pre- or non-Christian examples.

I take it as a no-brainer that morals and ethics are centered on our relationships with other people.
Jackson May 13, 2022 at 15:19 #694729
Quoting javi2541997
some individual records me not helping a homeless man in the train.


What is that person doing to help?
Jackson May 13, 2022 at 15:21 #694730
Quoting ZzzoneiroCosm
morals and ethics are centered on our relationships with other people.


Yes, but helping others in not inherent.
javi2541997 May 13, 2022 at 15:21 #694731
Quoting Jackson
What is that person doing to help?


Nothing, but he is destroying my integrity and honor.
Jackson May 13, 2022 at 15:21 #694732
Quoting javi2541997
Nothing, but he is destroying my integrity and honor.


I do not think so.
Deleted User May 13, 2022 at 15:22 #694733
Reply to Jackson It was just the example I used. You're free to substitute an example more in line with your view of the world.
Jackson May 13, 2022 at 15:23 #694734
Quoting ZzzoneiroCosm
It was just the example I used. You're free to substitute an example more in line with your view of the world.


I did not agree with you.
Deleted User May 13, 2022 at 15:24 #694735
Reply to Jackson I see that. I don't see it as a particularly important point. So I'm not really interested in continuing the exchange. Take care. :smile:
Jackson May 13, 2022 at 15:26 #694736
Quoting ZzzoneiroCosm
I see that. I don't see it as a particularly important point. So I'm not really interested in continuing the exchange. Take care. :smile:


Why start a thread if you have no interest. Waste of time.
Deleted User May 13, 2022 at 15:28 #694738
Reply to Jackson Interested in the thread. Not in your point. Cheers. :smile:
Jackson May 13, 2022 at 15:29 #694739
Reply to ZzzoneiroCosm

I'll probably ignore you from now on.
Deleted User May 13, 2022 at 15:32 #694740
L'éléphant May 13, 2022 at 16:23 #694764


Reply to ZzzoneiroCosm Reply to Jackson

Quoting javi2541997
Why do I have to help other persons? — Jackson

You don’t. But the society or the masses would impose you that if you do not do so, you would be amoral.

You're engaging in true moral discussion and maybe not know you're pushing the correct buttons.

1. Society's compulsion for the individuals to provide moral contributions to the public is itself a legitimate moral question. And guess what? One can actually question it and they would still be under a legitimate reason to question, like what Jackson is doing.

2. Contrast that with an individual's action that directly affect others -- for example, murdering someone, or smoking in a closed room with other people, or inciting chaos in a crowded theater by fire alarm prank.

Bottom line, society cannot compel individuals on 1, but it is within reason to punish for the offenses mentioned in 2.
Agent Smith May 13, 2022 at 16:34 #694765
[quote=L'éléphant]smoking in a closed room with other people[/quote]

Mea culpa! A thousand apologies.
frank May 13, 2022 at 16:38 #694767
Ortega - Revolt of the Masses, p. 189:What [ ] is called amorality is a thing that does not exist. If you are willing to submit to any norm, you have, nolens volens, to submit to the norm of denying all morality, and this is not amoral but immoral.


I get what he's saying. Plus judgement of some kind is at the core of any action.

On the other hand, amorality is a lens through which we can see the world. We use that lens in anthropology and psychology. In those endeavors we aren't judging, but rather trying to understand.
Agent Smith May 13, 2022 at 16:45 #694769
[quote=ZzzoneiroCosm]amorality[/quote]

Aristotle's potential-actual distinction seems important.

Deleted User May 13, 2022 at 16:58 #694773
Reply to Agent Smith Feel free to expand on that. :smile:
Agent Smith May 13, 2022 at 17:11 #694782
Quoting ZzzoneiroCosm
Feel free to expand on that. :smile:


I'd rather not! Thank you for asking.
Deleted User May 13, 2022 at 17:17 #694784