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Praying and Wishing are Wireless Communications

L'éléphant February 27, 2022 at 04:10 7375 views 48 comments
I have been thinking about the way people use praying and wishing as a way to communicate as strongly as other means, such as calling by phone, writing an email message, texting, and person to person talk. It fascinates me that people, both religious and non-religious, communicate their desires and wishes, especially the most important issues they face in their moments of grief, sadness, happiness, and fear to another person by way of sending their thoughts in the air over long distances in hopes that the thoughts would reach the other person. Just like a voice on the phone would reach your ear, or an email message would appear in your inbox.

What’s even more fascinating is that multiple-language people use the language the intended person speaks to send the wish or prayer. So, they pray in English if the intended person is an English speaker, or French, if the person speaks French. Does it really matter if I prayed in German while sending my thoughts over to a friend who speaks English? Do my thoughts travel in the air in German or English?

I remember a neighbor’s parents who would utter a prayer to send with him through his flight. This prayer would accompany him during his travel on a plane. And when he landed safely at his destination, the parents were happy that the prayer made it safe. I will not argue against it. The point is, the prayer was as effective as a phone call to them.

People calling for emergency would pray when all other communications fail. Dead phone, no internet connection, no signal? There’s praying and wishing. I know because I’ve done it. I had sent a “be strong” thought-message to someone who was having a difficult time, and living thousands of miles away from me.

Comments (48)

Average March 02, 2022 at 05:12 #661770
I like the premise of this discussion.
L'éléphant March 02, 2022 at 06:04 #661796
Reply to Average Please share your idea.
Average March 02, 2022 at 13:56 #661910
Reply to L'éléphant it’s possible the prayer is a kind of therapeutic process.
Deleted User March 02, 2022 at 14:31 #661922
Reply to Average

Yes, I'd say you're right. It's beneficial in the sense that it actually formalizes what you desire in a way that it's something you would ask a deity to either aid you in achieving, or provide for you. Like, it's that important to you. You don't go around praying about unicorns after all, you pray about what really matters to you. It orients your focus on what's really occupying your mind and why. Writing journals is very similar, but lacks the emotional reinforcement something like that has. Unless you're a freak like me who writes single-spaced essays for fun. If one prays about something and it happens, your whole body is blown away by that apparent contradiction of reality which can be uplifting in a way that isn't comparable to other experiences. It's like getting direct confirmation that something out there has your back.
Hanover March 02, 2022 at 14:54 #661938
Reply to L'éléphant Reminds me of this:

"This is the doctrine of bitachon, or trust in G?d, which the chassidic master Rabbi Menachem Mendel of Lubavitch (1789–1866) distilled as the Yiddish adage, Tracht gut, vet zein gut—'Think good, and it will be good.'

What this means, says the Lubavitcher Rebbe, is that bitachon, the absolute assurance and conviction that G?d will make things good, actually becomes the conduit and vessel which draw down and receive G?d’s blessings. Positive thinking is not just a way to weather negative occurrences, but actually makes positive results happen."

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2492/jewish/Good-Thinking.htm

I don't buy into these things literally of course, but I do have this instinct of refusing to say or think bad thoughts for fear that I'll think them into existence. It derives from the idea that God spoke creation into existence ("And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."). This goes well beyond as @Average suggests because it references a mystical event, as in when divine creatures of God think something or say something, they change the course of the universe.

Like many religious ideas, the far-fetchedness makes it hard to fully accept, but I do like the idea of the power it provides to each of us to change the world and the responsibility it imposes upon each of us to say and do as we'd like the world to be. I also like the paradoxical construct of this system, because it is through the power of prayer that one obtains power over the universe, as opposed to the idea that we're down on our knees begging for external assitance.

Be strong!

Do you feel the strength now within you?
L'éléphant March 03, 2022 at 06:19 #662261
Quoting Average
it’s possible the prayer is a kind of therapeutic process.

It is, right? When visiting a person who is ill, people leave words of encouragement and well wishes. Even those who do not believe in prayers.

Quoting Hanover
I don't buy into these things literally of course, but I do have this instinct of refusing to say or think bad thoughts for fear that I'll think them into existence.

Good read from the link. Thanks.

Same here. This thing is very strong and I doubt there's one individual out there who do not have some sort of thought-positive and negative-thought avoidance practice in them.

Quoting Hanover
Be strong!

Do you feel the strength now within you?

Yes, just reading those words make me feel it. I literally sent that thought to someone living abroad at the time when I couldn't reach him. And I felt at the time that the stronger you will it, the stronger it would get to the person.




L'éléphant March 03, 2022 at 06:22 #662262
Quoting Garrett Travers
You don't go around praying about unicorns after all, you pray about what really matters to you.

Yes! People actually pray for facts, for the actual reality. That's why I put this in epistemology because we treat our own prayers and wishes as part of our knowledge about the world.
Deleted User March 03, 2022 at 06:24 #662263
Quoting L'éléphant
Yes! People actually pray for facts, for the actual reality. That's why I put this in epistemology because in our prayers and wishes we treat them like a part of justified true beliefs.


Yes. It's like a cognitive reflection that goes through a multisensory process, it's very peculiar. It's like being honest with oneself in a manner that is spoken, or at least formulated in thought. It tightens ones coherence on their values.
L'éléphant March 03, 2022 at 06:36 #662265
Reply to Garrett Travers I agree. I think it's one of the most honest conversations with yourself.
lol. I know someone who reserves best wishes for people she likes. But don't we all do that? And what about the expression "I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy".
Deleted User March 03, 2022 at 06:37 #662266
Quoting L'éléphant
And what about the expression "I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy".


Well, I have bounced back and forth on that one, hehah
L'éléphant March 04, 2022 at 03:40 #662655
Reply to Garrett Travers
Yes, I know the feeling.
Agent Smith March 04, 2022 at 03:55 #662659
Reply to Hanover

You might find this interesting: Law of Attraction.

It basically states that positive thoughts lead to good experiences and negative thoughts lead to bad ones.
L'éléphant March 04, 2022 at 04:00 #662663
Reply to Agent Smith Thanks! I posted a passage here from that link.

In the New Thought spiritual movement, the Law of Attraction is a pseudoscience based on the belief that positive or negative thoughts bring positive or negative experiences into a person's life.[1][2] The belief is based on the ideas that people and their thoughts are made from "pure energy" and that a process of like energy attracting like energy exists through which a person can improve their health, wealth, and personal relationships. There is no empirical scientific evidence supporting the law of attraction, and it is widely considered to be pseudoscience.


This is the gist.

The pure energy is what we give off when we have those thoughts. When sending good wishes to people, we're counting on that pure energy to travel through space and reach those people. As crazy as it is.
Agent Smith March 04, 2022 at 04:03 #662665
Reply to L'éléphant So, you don't believe that the law of attraction holds? I agree. Imagine it were that simple to find happiness.

As for the OP, a novel take on prayer and wishing wells. :up:
L'éléphant March 04, 2022 at 04:05 #662666
Quoting Agent Smith
?L'éléphant
So, you don't believe that the law of attraction holds? I agree. Imagine it were that simple to find happiness.

I freakin' do! :starstruck:

Did I not make that clear in my post? I find the law of attraction very believable, but we just don't have scientific backing for it.

Quoting Agent Smith
As for the OP, a novel take on prayer and wishing wells. :up:

Thanks.
L'éléphant March 04, 2022 at 04:08 #662667
Speaking of which, I actually had a dream of Hanover. :gasp:

There was a knock on my door and there's freakin' Hanover. First thing I uttered was "WTF!"
Agent Smith March 04, 2022 at 04:24 #662670
Quoting L'éléphant
Did I not make that clear in my post? I find the law of attraction very believable, but we just don't have scientific backing for it.


You're in for boatloads of disappointment! It's probably because my experiences are very unique, not quite the same as yours I'm afraid. Rose-tinted glasses vs. sunglasses? The former just-for-fun, the latter to protect your eyes from the dazzle effect of sunlight. I tried and failed, maybe you'll have better luck! Bon voyage señor/señorita.

L'éléphant March 04, 2022 at 04:33 #662673
Reply to Agent Smith
Actually I think you're right.
Agent Smith March 04, 2022 at 04:44 #662676
Quoting L'éléphant
Actually I think you're right.


Somehow that breaks my heart. Good day.
L'éléphant March 06, 2022 at 03:47 #663422
Quoting Agent Smith
Somehow that breaks my heart. Good day.

Okay, I think you're wrong. Don't walk away with a broken heart.
I believe in the law of attraction.
Agent Smith March 06, 2022 at 05:10 #663433
Quoting L'éléphant
Somehow that breaks my heart. Good day.
— Agent Smith
Okay, I think you're wrong. Don't walk away with a broken heart.
I believe in the law of attraction.


:lol: That's how cruel the universe is: it tears apart our delicate souls. Let us hope our children fare better than us. We're working in total darkness here; mishaps are bound to occur.
L'éléphant March 06, 2022 at 19:48 #663639
Quoting Agent Smith
That's how cruel the universe is: it tears apart our delicate souls.

I can assure you that the universe has no meaning or emotion.
Hanover March 06, 2022 at 22:52 #663719
Quoting L'éléphant
I can assure you that the universe has no meaning or emotion.


No you can't. You can choose to believe there is no meaning and you can live your life that way. Or, you can choose to believe every thing is where it is for some purpose and live your life that way.

Give me a reason for choice A, not just an assurance you know A is correct.

L'éléphant March 07, 2022 at 00:09 #663755
Quoting Hanover
Or, you can choose to believe every thing is where it is for some purpose and live your life that way.

Humans give meaning to the universe. We assigned emotions to things.
Are you saying that the most basic unit of physical existence coming together to form the moon and the stars, did so for some purpose that has nothing to do with humans? Or do we interprete the existence of objects as we perceive them?

(Oh, and by saying this, did I just switch my thinking to subjectivity?)

Because to say there is meaning to the world, the universe, means that there is objective reality. Oh yeah, I noticed that the two notions -- meaning and objective reality -- haven't been put together in an OP in this forum. There are OPs that talk about objective reality, and then OPs that talk about meaning. But never together -- or could you point me to those OPs?

I think it's time we explore the connection of those notions. :)

I like sushi March 07, 2022 at 11:47 #663927
Articulating one’s feelings and thoughts through spoken/written language is very helpful. Anyone who has had to give a lecture or write an essay will understand how actually articulating ideas and feelings helps to refine them.

If I have a big problem I write an essay about how to solve the problem. Doing so brings to light many ideas and feelings that were hidden below the surface and either solves or eases the issue a great deal.

Thinking is very hard. Articulating the problem explicitly allows one to contend with it more readily. Pleas and prayers are the first step to facing the problem head on and bringing the power of rationality to the fore. Meaning, when we feel a situation is hopeless often we just need to break it down into smaller problems and attend to the one/s that are easiest to articulate.

For example: If you have an existential crisis and want to die, then write an essay titled “Why do I want to die?” Then you can just write freeform and get to the crux of the issue whilst offering counter arguments and balancing out reasons for and against.
L'éléphant March 08, 2022 at 03:49 #664254
Quoting I like sushi
Thinking is very hard. Articulating the problem explicitly allows one to contend with it more readily. Pleas and prayers are the first step to facing the problem head on and bringing the power of rationality to the fore. Meaning, when we feel a situation is hopeless often we just need to break it down into smaller problems and attend to the one/s that are easiest to articulate.

Oh big time!
I forgot about this -- writing down your thoughts on paper.
Agent Smith March 10, 2022 at 13:28 #665098
Quoting Hanover
Be strong!

Do you feel the strength now within you?


No! :grin:
L'éléphant March 10, 2022 at 21:57 #665303
Reply to Agent Smith
You lack faith, that's why.

In my case, I wasn't even feeling religious when I uttered that for a friend. I did that out of frustration. I couldn't reach the dude. And he was living on the 24th floor. In another country. So what to do? Send the message "Be strong!" through the air, par avion.

And hoped that it reached him. (That has nothing to do with anything, but just being human).
Agent Smith March 11, 2022 at 00:50 #665384
Reply to L'éléphant Yeah, yeah!
Jack Cummins March 11, 2022 at 02:04 #665409
Reply to Agent Smith
I was reading this thread and noticed you refer to the law of attraction. I think that I have referred to it a couple times on the forum. However, I have never come across anyone else referring to it. I think that it does exist like a magnetic energy force and it does even relate to the idea of prayer and how 'mind' may exist at the level of causation. However, it is likely that many do find it hard to believe in, probably because it has a basis in esoteric thought and goes against the perspective of scientific materialism.
Agent Smith March 11, 2022 at 03:23 #665420
Reply to Jack Cummins Hi Jack.

The Law of Attraction, on superficial examination, seems to square with mathematical reflection transformation (what you are is reflected back to you by the mirror of reality). Kinda like an echo: If I shout "go to hell", the echo will reply "...to hell", "...to hell" and if I scream "I love you", the echo responds "...love you", "...love you".

Aside: Isn't it interesting that an echo truncates sounds?

Reminds me of the question "is the glass half-empty or half-full?" Depends on one's point of view, no? In essence, reality is what it is, it's constant, but depending on one's mindset, it appears different, even to the extent that these impressions are contradictory.
Agent Smith March 11, 2022 at 03:45 #665422
Reply to Jack Cummins

Regarding the the Law of Attraction, if prayer and wishes are causal dead ends i.e. they produce no effect, so the scientific community claims then, we must admit that some things have no effect although it is [s]possible[/s] necessary that they have causes.

This has an implication for The Principle of Sufficient Reason, one part of which states that everything has a cause. I've always wondered why there's no principle that goes everything has an effect.

I think this topic deserves a separate thread: Are there things that have no effect? If yes, all is well, but if the answer is no, prayer (& wishes) must have an effect i.e. they, in principle, should work.





L'éléphant March 11, 2022 at 22:27 #665769
Reply to Agent Smith
FWIW, belief in telepathy has been around for a while. It is the process of sending out thoughts to another person without the use of technology or other channel to transmit the message. Of course, face to face, this is easily done as body language is real and could be read like a written note.

But what happens if two people doing telepathy are far apart, and not seeing each other. Then they're doing extrasensory communication, the mystery of which we haven't figured out. (This is what my OP is suggesting). Nonetheless, we all do it. If anyone said to you they don't believe in it, then that's bullshit as everyone had wishes in their brain at one point in their lives.

The law of attraction is not extrasensory because it involves two or more people seeing each other and having the perception that is required for the LOA to happen.
Agent Smith March 12, 2022 at 02:10 #665842
Reply to L'éléphant

Finishing each other's sentences:




Also, there's this scene in The Matrix film in which 3 agents finish each other's sentences in a coherent way, as if they were one mind or were capable of telepathy.
L'éléphant March 12, 2022 at 02:47 #665852
Reply to Agent Smith :razz:
Good one.
Agent Smith March 12, 2022 at 02:50 #665855
L'éléphant March 12, 2022 at 02:59 #665859
Reply to Agent Smith What is it?
Agent Smith March 12, 2022 at 03:00 #665861
Quoting L'éléphant
What is it?


:chin: Does not compute!
L'éléphant March 12, 2022 at 03:02 #665862
Reply to Agent SmithWhat doesn't compute? Spit it out!
Agent Smith March 12, 2022 at 03:09 #665869
Quoting L'éléphant
?Agent SmithWhat doesn't compute? Spit it out!


Never mind!
L'éléphant March 12, 2022 at 03:10 #665871
Reply to Agent Smith
I can't read minds. I'm not telephatic. If you want something from me, you need to tell me in words.
Agent Smith March 12, 2022 at 03:12 #665872
L'éléphant March 12, 2022 at 03:15 #665873
Reply to Agent Smith Okay, what's the connection of this clip again?
Agent Smith March 12, 2022 at 03:59 #665884
Quoting L'éléphant
Okay, what's the connection of this clip again?


Well, your question was a Zen moment for me ( :chin: ). I can't guarantee that what I say next will make sense. :smile:
L'éléphant March 12, 2022 at 04:11 #665887
Reply to Agent Smith :shade:
This is exhausting. Why do I feel like I'm in the dating scene again? Cause this is the convo you get when you're in one. Just letting you know that.
Agent Smith March 12, 2022 at 04:28 #665889
Quoting L'éléphant
This is exhausting.


:sad:

Quoting L'éléphant
Just letting you know that.


Gracias.

Good day!
Ajemo March 13, 2022 at 16:38 #666396
As far as actual research into telepathy, Cleve Backster looked for reactions in plants to intentions of the tester using a polygraph. Apparently this doesn't work if the correct polygraph technology isn't used. But it does urge some suspicion that there is the ability to project thought and have it received by an observer (in this case a plant).
L'éléphant March 13, 2022 at 17:15 #666415
Reply to Ajemo Yes, that's a good one. I also remember reading about talking to plants make them thrive more. This is a scientific experiment conducted by qualified experts, so I will not argue against its validity.

Another findings -- babies in the womb benefit from music and mothers talking to them. Again, I don't know how valid this finding is .