Is perfection possible?
I have an uncle who is always telling me that perfection is impossible. I told him that I would ideally like to live a life composed entirely of decisions that make sense and his response to my statement was “it’ll never be perfect”. I’m wondering what other people might think about this subject. Is it possible to live a life that is flawless or are we destined to live lives that are less than ideal?
Comments (62)
Would it be futile to imagine that anything can be true simply because we can’t at all tell what is true and what is not? Let’s imagine a hypothetical situation in which it would be impossible for us to discover the truth for one reason or another. Let’s say for example that someone had a severe form of paralysis that rendered them incapable of discerning fact from fiction. Would their inability to acquire knowledge mean that there is nothing to be known?
I suspect we have insufficient information and brainpower to make the correct decisions consistently.
My take on this is that the question isn't answerable and isn't entirely coherent. What does flawless mean? Flawlessness can only be measured in relation to some agreed upon criteria. What would that be? Christianity? Rorty's postmodernism? Camus' existentialism? Your own subjective predilections?
If you are asking is it possible to be a human being and not make the wrong choices occasionally or often the answer I think is 'no'.
Why do you believe that it’s impossible?
all swans we have seen are white, and, therefore, all swans are white?
So, what you're saying grandpa, is that you've concluded the absolute, perfect conclusion about the nature of perfection? Sounds like grandpa's standards for perfection, are for the absence of it entirely.... Bummer... I had similar kind of grandpa, he was miserable.
Quoting Average
Have you ever heard Ana Vidovic play classical guitar? Give that a listen for me, and then tell me if you detected any flaws. It's something that people are misconstrued about. Perfection must be in regards to an endeavor, and is a standard YOU place into that activity, or endeavor, which you pursue in achievement. A standard that, once achieved, because we are constantly computing data and refining our neural pathways of learning and nuance, is replaced by a new standard, which develops in accordance with our coherent network of endlessly accrued data on the subject, as well as our continued interested in achieving it, and which is executed itself. Ever on repeat. Didn't you ever wonder how we got the statue of David? Perfection is when one achieves their own self-generated standard in flawless execution. While you're looking up Ana Vidovic to see what I mean, jump over to Passion Flower by John Gomm using the exact same instrument and tell me what it is you hear. Do you not hear flawlessness, perfection, played in different keys and themes? Guess it's up to you, isn't?
That is correct,
Quoting Average
This is the exact proper view of things: Self evident.
I admit she has talent
All human beings we have seen are imperfect, therefore all human beings are imperfect. Yep. I think human being is a synonym for imperfection, set aside falsifiability. I call this one a priori. :cool:
:cool:
You're welcome.
Quoting Tom Storm
How could I ever meet a perfect human being if human being is a synonym for imperfection? If anything is incoherent it’s your question.
I think perfection depends on aesthetic. It is a pretty subjective concept. Most of the cases are reflected on arts and how they show what we consider as "perfect". Keep in mind that we the humans tend to want to improve ourselves always. So, probably, "perfection" is another goal which the people longs.
When we see a paint of Goya or Monet we debate about the perfection of their works, right?
So, perfection could exists but is up to the people's thoughts or tastes.
Quoting Average
Absolutely. When we become old and then mature, we tend to idealize our lives less. We simply see it as objective trying to be the most happy as we can.
I'm just having a bit of fun, man. It's my opinion that human beings are imperfect - all problems with induction aside. This is a presupposition I hold it does not require defending. You are welcome not to accept this view. Find me a perfect person and I will change my mind - but first define perfection as it applies to human beings. As I said the question itself is unfinished. Which brings us right back to my first response.
Quoting javi2541997
I hope you don’t mind me asking but why do you believe these claims are true?
I detest perfection -- whatever that means since I don't think I have encountered perfection ever. And I'm not even sure what a flawless life is. It's weird to use it in this context since we know we can't control everything in our life to make it work the way we envision.
That said, I have no attraction to perfection. I am drawn to "flawed" people, whose flaws make them interesting. I am also fascinated by those whose bad decisions in life didn't deter them from continuing the path they've chosen and overcoming it.
People who try to live a perfect life is boring to me.
I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “as it applies to human beings”. Would you mind providing some clarification?
You’re a fortunate man if you’ve never had to encounter something that you detest. I wish I was that lucky.
I do not know if those are true, I pretend to defend my side. I always thought that perfection depends on someone's looks because we tend to be pretty subjective when we speak about art or "perfection"
Probably, it does not exist an universal concept inside perfection itself. I guess it only exists in our minds (subjective) but does exist at the end... we cannot deny the concept of perfection at least in aesthetics
Whatevs, speak for yourself there, Storm Tom.
See my first answer when I asked about flawlessness. Same thing.
Why do you believe this? Is it just another self evident axiom?
Let me ask you - what is flawlessness and who do you decide if something is flawless?
If an archer only shot arrows at a target that was impossible to miss I doubt that anyone would consider them a master marksman.
Quoting Average
Is this what I said? Read my response. No point going further if this is your take home message. Here's a clue - you are talking about a flawless life. How is this defined?
I’m not sure what kind of answer would satisfy you.
Carl Jung saw the way in which religious perspectives, especially the history of Christianity, emphasised the goal of perfection. He maintained that people struggled with this, and the inferior side of human nature, which he called the shadow, was formed in the process, with potential for human destruction.
Of course, his perspective is open to critique but so is the idea of perfection. It may be easier for those who are in relative privileged positions to live up to than for the disadvantaged. In other words, those who have an easier life may have less difficulty reaching for the highest ideals than those who are struggling to survive.
Of course, it does come down to how the idea or ideal of perfection is viewed. Within Christianity, Jesus spoke of the hollow spirituality of the Pharisees. That was about adherence to the outer aspects of morality, as opposed to looking at it on a deeper level.
Whether one looks at the idea of perfection from one religious perspective or from a purely philosophical one, one could ask what does perfection mean? Is it the absence of mistakes and is it something which can be measured at all, especially in relation to action. Is perfection more a state of mind? It can also be disputed at how it can be achieved and whether it may be arrived at intrinsically or after learning from mistakes and does this matter in how the concept of perfection is viewed?
I doubt it but I’m not sure what would qualify as a state of mind in your view.
You might be right but I have reason to suspect that this is probably not the case.
That's exactly the right approach, I think, if you are going to ask such a question.
I am not sure how you define perfection? People see it differently with some emphasising piety and some as about being the highest example of a human being. But it does make a difference how it is judged, especially whether it is about the way one lives or about an underlying attitude to life. It does not help to generalise or say that it needs to be about both because that makes it seem so abstract and unachievable. Actually, it is this vagueness which makes it seem unrealistic as a goal. When I grew up as a Catholic, I was aware of 'sin' and the ideal of perfection was there as an ultimate extreme, which only 'saints' might live up to and I gave up the goal of being a saint long before adolescence.
I think that it has more to do with the way one lives. I don’t really know a whole lot about underlying attitudes.
I don’t have any formal training when it comes to developing definitions. Maybe people who write dictionaries do but I don’t. I’m like a blind man trying to find his way in the darkness.
I think it can be measured mathematically.
Encounter is the wrong word. Try imagine. We could have a notion of perfection. Imagine something perfect. Although, I want to take back what I said that I detest perfection. There are a few things in life that are perfect, whose qualities I do not detest:
Eggs -- are perfect. The shape, size, and nutritional value.
Small birds are perfect, like hummingbirds.
The moon looks perfect.
Some pine trees are perfect.
Some bells sound perfect -- like the big church bells.
Some rock formations are perfect. The outcroppings of boulders are perfect to me.
Yup
Maybe you’re right.
One can't then expect a perfect answer to your question, oui?
:point: Perfect is the enemy of the good
[quote=Voltaire]Le meglio è l'inimico del bene.[/quote]
[quote=Confucius]Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without.[/quote]
The obvious or natural question is "does God exist?" and what about the ontological argument?
Could you give me an example that would illustrate clearly whatever it is that you are trying to communicate?
The only message I can take away from this portion of your message is that knowledge is necessary for perfection.
I'm trying to say, idea of perfect is different to yours so there will never be an objective perfect which is necessary to have perfect.
Just because we have different ideas doesn’t mean that there are no correct ideas. Someone could be right and someone could be wrong.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RWZZNfFP8bk
I mean in sense of what we believe the closest to perfection is, which differentiates according to different people. Right or wrong doesn't matter as it's the context but the extent at which we can imagine what perfect is, or how one can come about achieving it.