You are viewing the historical archive of The Philosophy Forum.
For current discussions, visit the live forum.
Go to live forum

The Key by Tobias

Baden December 24, 2021 at 23:51 2025 views 38 comments
She heard the phone from behind the door. She struggled with the lock, her heavy bag of groceries and the file she had brought over in order to prepare for tomorrow’s lecture. She was just about to start a graduate level course in philosophy and she would like to impress her teacher, but the task at hand required a rather more practical sort of discipline. Finally she managed to open the lock, put the file and the groceries down and picked up the phone. ‘Hello’ she said with a voice still shaky from the rush it took her to enter.

She did not have a great day already and when the other side didn’t even bother to answer she became genuinely annoyed. She heard someone breathing on the other end. “Who’s calling”, she demanded with a voice she now hoped sounded sufficiently curt. No answer. “Have it your way then”. She disconnected the phone.

The next fifteen minutes or so were spent putting away the groceries in the kitchen’s cupboards and in the huge refrigerator her parents had given her when she moved out. Afterwards she picked up the newspaper flicking through it absent-mindedly while sitting in a comfortable chair. She switched on CNN and watched it equally disinterested. She knew she had to start studying, but wasn’t looking forward to spending the next two hours in dense texts and also preparing dinner.

The phone rang again. This time the sound seemed different to her than it did usually. Possibly because the first time there was no answer and that tends to make people uneasy; she was no exception. She let it ring twice, then a third time. After the third time, she picked it up. “Hello”. No answer. “Who is this?” she inquired, more out of a sense of habit than that she thought she would get an answer this time. Still an answer came, sort of. She heard the person of the other hand press one of the numbered keys on the phone producing a high beep tone. 'Beep'. She decided to answer in the same vein and press a key as well. The other pressed the key shortly twice, 'beep-beep'.

"Ok", she said, beginning to get oddly curious, "you can answer me pressing the keys then". Short beep. “So, you are ok with that”, she said. “One short press indicates ‘yes’, two times indicate ‘no’, understood?” Beep. “Do I know you?” Beep. “You are not pulling a joke on me, are you?” Beep, beep. Why don’t you just talk to me, are you afraid to talk to me? Now she heard the high pitched sound of the key not once or twice, but three times, pressed long and repeating each other quickly. She took the phone from her ear. Does that question upset you? A pause and then a short and curt sounding click. The phone was pressed to the hook in what seemed a controlled and deliberate movement.

After this conversation she had a peculiar feeling. She felt as one would feel just before being formally introduced to a new acquaintance. The conversation hadn’t upset her; it had also not frightened her. She hadn’t even been very curious as to who the caller was. Yet she felt she met someone new, a sudden change in her environment. She began deliberately tidying up the newspapers and files. She noticed she was alone and the house seemed new to her in some way, similar to what one might experience returning home after a long holiday. The feeling of difference left though after she made coffee, after she opened her file and started studying. She made pasta for herself for dinner and watched her favorite TV series, 'Law and Order'.
The next day her lectures were rather uneventful, not to say dull. She had studied them but still failed to understand everything that was being said. Her lecturer was a very learned man, but he had trouble descending to the level of his students sometimes. She was home earlier than yesterday, which gave her time to dress for dance practice.
Dance class she had enjoyed from early adolescence, which had surprised people around her because she never was a person for bodily activity and she was very skeptical of her looks in general. She was known as soft spoken, kind, but usually in the background of things, not wanting to impose. She could be considered shy. Dancing was different though. She thought of it as a game of thrusts and challenges, a game in which she could lose herself provided she danced with the right partner. Yes, in dance she could lose herself and merge with the music, the rhythm and the meticulously prescribed steps.

She packed her shoes, she chose her outfit, she applied her make up. The phone rang. She checked her watch, same time as yesterday. “Hello”, “beep”, a sufficient introduction. She felt that slightly tilted, curious feeling again. “Hmm, you are a punctual type, am I right? She heard the short high pitched sound of the key, pressed once. She decided to engage this caller straight on and find out about his identity. He was bound to speak up sometime she figured. “Are you a man?”, she asked. Beep. Do we know each other from classes? This time there was a pause, as if the other hesitated, then she heard the sound of the key, once. So we know each other from class, are we attending the same lectures now? Beep, beep. Are you by any chance trying to get me on a date or something, but are afraid to tell? Again she had to take the phone from her ear as he angrily pressed the key three times, pressing it for a long time. “Ok, ok, I will not ask such questions anymore”. She noticed she became confident talking in this rather asymmetric way. “Do you know much about me?” Again a hesitation then she heard the key pressed twice. “Do you know I take dance lessons, do you like dancing? Beep. “I am off to tango classes in a couple of minutes, so I will have to hang up on you soon. Do you want to know what I will wear in class?” Beep. She felt a search of daring going through her. The other being restrained to his use of the keys somehow granted her a power she rarely felt. She told him about a black dress, about black tango shoes, she even added that she would wear long earrings. “Are you satisfied with my choice of dress”, she asked playfully and maybe a little flirty. Beep, was her answer and then she decided to press down the receiver, disconnecting with a firm click.

She smiled to herself as she started preparing for class. She carefully zipped her dress and applied make up in a studious fashion. She spent more time on her looks as usual as if preparing for a special event or a date instead of dance practice. Her dance classes went extremely well too. She danced with her long time dance partner and one-time crush. She executed her steps with even more grace than usual, freer, or so it seemed.

The next time the phone rang she felt some sort of intimacy with her caller. She told him about the lecture she would be attending and how she was lucky to be able to take a break from the books by dancing. She told him that her dance classes went extremely well. With a slight impish glee she told him about her ex boyfriend and current dance partner. When she started asking questions to uncover his identity the answers he gave were rather inconclusive. Yes, they had been in college together, but he had refused to answer whether they still were, using his familiar method of the three long beeps.

The following day, a Saturday by chance, she found herself waiting for his call. It didn’t come. On Sunday the phone rang. She talked to him about her weekend and even about her plans for the coming week. That this could be dangerous entered her mind, but the deliberate and self restrained manner the other had used for communication, somehow made it look safe to her. He listened patiently and never interrupted, not at all like her friends or her ex lovers. “Can I ask you why you didn’t call yesterday?” The answer came in two short beeps. She wanted to pursue, but decided to stick with the rules. “You will keep calling me won’t you?” The key was pressed, but with hesitation and very short. You don’t know yet? Now the beep sounded once, no hesitation. “Ok, but you want to know more about me don’t you?” The beep sounded once. I will tell you, if you promise to answer my questions truthfully too. She asked about his appearance and it seemed he was an ordinary build man, her age, with blond or brown hair. Not much to go on really. He refused to answer questions which were very specific. When she objected that that was not part of the deal she only encountered silence at the other end.

Ok, I will describe myself to you, even if you wish to remain a mystery. She told things about herself, where she was born, from what family she came, where she had lived before attending university. The same patient silence on the other line and once or twice the keys were pressed when she asked him questions. She wanted to get a reaction from him so decided to go a little further and described her house to him including her bedroom. She felt unashamed and even divulged quite private details, for instance her preference for silken pajamas and satin nightgowns. He remained unperturbed. She than started to describe herself, but before she could proceed, she heard a short shhh on the other line, than they were disconnected. She was puzzled, but accepted it as part of game of which he apparently could set the rules.

In the days that followed with their inevitable phone calls, she began feeling she was changing by divulging these details about herself. She displayed herself to someone who remained anonymous on the end of the line, but seemed to appreciate to listen to her. For the first time she felt truly creative. By gradually revealing herself on the phone, she recreated herself, by putting into words who and what she already was, but which she had never truly realized herself. Before her eyes and ears, a beautiful woman unfolded, self confident, intelligent and graceful. She went to her lecture with increased confidence. She looked at herself with different eyes, with the eyes of an anonymous caller. She was observing herself sitting behind her desk, taking notes and asking questions. All the time she kept thinking about how to put this all into words. After the lecture she speedily packed and left for her home where at exactly four o’clock the phone rang.

She took up the phone with the feeling of anticipation. Something would happen, she wanted something to happen. She quickly started talking about herself and about a new dress she bought. The semester would be closed with a big campus party and she wanted to look good. She described the dress, including the low cut décolleté and the strapless bra she would where inside it. She told him how the color of her hair would match her dress. She told him about her legs and how they would seem longer because of the cut of the gown. She described herself in detail. He listened patiently, she could here his breathing, it didn’t change as she had hoped. “You like me talking to you like that?” The answer was affirmative. She went on to describe how she would like to dance at the coming ball and with whom. The phone was disconnected.

The next day she asked him if he had liked her descriptions and if he thought she was beautiful. When the answers were positive she proceeded to describe even more, revealing every part of her body through her words. She felt as if she was painting a picture with them. When the phone was eventually put down she felt good about herself, she felt daring, flirtatious and like a woman.

The feeling of self consciousness and now even confident beauty didn’t leave her. She attended lectures, did shopping, prepared for dancing with so much more purpose now. It seemed she was carrying her private mirror with her, a mirror revealing only her best parts. Everyday he would call and now everyday she would first talk to him about her what her days were like. After that she would describe herself, what she was wearing, what she wore underneath and how she had danced and with whom. She looked forward to his calls and to the inevitable revealing. When talking to him she became conscious of her body, of her beauty and of his desire, which he confessed to after she asked him.

Her days became centered on his calls, skipping social events and drinks with friends in order to be home at four o’clock. The conversations grew longer and she confided more and more. She confided childhood secrets, problems within her family, painful memories about her ex boyfriends, and even more intimate details. The only responses were in the high pitched voice of a numbered key on her phone. Yet, when she would tell those things she felt like a feather was slowly caressing her breasts. The sounds of the numbered keys made her become who she was and made her find more and more of her true self, or so it seemed.

In everyday life she started to dress in more variety of styles, wearing clothes she thought she would never wear. She asserted herself in classes and she still danced better than she ever did. Her friends commented on her looks and her teacher complimented her essays. She finally felt like she had begun being herself, as it is put in both psychological self help literature and the mystical writings of the ancients.

A discomforting feeling started nagging her. She felt at times she owed her new found identity to an anonymous outsider and not to herself at all. She owed it to someone she didn’t know, but who kept calling her. She didn’t just wonder about who he was anymore; she needed to know who he was. She even began to have an idea about who he could be.
Years ago someone had fallen in love with her, someone who had not dared to approach her outright with it, but who’s infatuation was obvious. It had been a persistent crush too. He wrote her poems and all that. She didn’t have time for him than. Besides she was involved with somebody else at the time. They had been at university together, that did fit. Could it be that he has found her number and in this way regained contact?

She decided to try something. Through the yearbook she found his phone number. She decided to call and see if he still had the same number. She recognized the sound of his voice. She didn’t say anything. Eventually he hung up the phone.

She received her phone call at the same time as always. Somehow though the session didn’t seem to go well and the phone was disconnected rather earlier than usual it seemed.
The next day she called his number again. He picked up. She didn’t want to say anything. Somehow she thought it would spoil it all and besides she didn’t know how to begin. If it was him, than she had been telling all her secrets to a boy that she once knew, not to some comforting stranger. What was maybe even worse was the possibility that there would probably be no contact anymore. She didn’t want to let go of the fantasy just yet. She decided to press one of the keys. He pressed back. She pressed again, two times this time. “Who am I talking to?” His voice sounded distant, as can happen over the phone. She hung up.

Her stranger still called her, but she felt she didn’t enjoy being called anymore. Her descriptions lost their intimacy, as if she recounted the feelings of another. She didn’t know what to ask anymore, she had no more questions. Gradually the phone conversations shortened. He stopped calling everyday, sometimes leaving long intervals. She decided not to pick up at four o’clock if he did. She missed her calls, but somehow the magic was gone when talking to the man at the other end of the line. So too, was the magic gone from her dancing and from her essays. The dress she bought seemed to have faded color. She began to feel clumsy and reproached herself for allowing this to happen, to become addicted to the beeps of the phone coming from someone who could be anybody. Now she began to feel scared, she had revealed herself to a total stranger perhaps. Maybe he would get angry at her lack of response; after all it had been months now since he first called, not really a short affair, if you looked at it from this angle.

She decided to call the number she had found in the yearbook. His voice sounded reassuring at least. They had spent years together in college and even though it didn’t bloom into anything, they did like each other’s conversation and had had quite a rapport with one another. She couldn’t just reveal herself totally though. What would he think, why would she call him, with what excuse? She had rejected him. Besides, if he had been the stranger all along her silence would be words enough. She decided to press the number 9 key on the phone. He responded with the short strike of a key. She pressed the 9 numbered key again. “Well, my anonymous friend, If you don’t want to talk to me, than at least use the keys to answer some questions I have”, he said. “If you press the key once, it means yes, twice means no, would you do that for me?” After a short hesitation she pressed her key, once. “Do we know each other”, he asked.

Comments (38)

Hanover December 25, 2021 at 21:45 #634898
Liked it, but it must be set in the 80s, prior to cell phones. but after rotary dial, before you had to be at home to catch a phone call and prior to caller ID.

I could identity with the loneliness of the main character, the safety of anonymity that technology allows, and the substitute of technology for real human contact it allows.

Maybe that's what TPF is, we're just responding to other beeps.

The story could have gone the other direction, not in having formed a relationship with another lonely soul, but we could have learned the beeps on the other end were to a bot. Would it have mattered if it were a real person or not in the end?

Left me thinking...
Jamal December 26, 2021 at 13:34 #635157
I didn’t take to this story at first, but when I got past the first couple of paragraphs it really pulled me in and I found it very compelling. Such a simple, strong setup. And then the development of her feelings as the phone calls continued, that was masterful.

Like Hanover, I was thinking that it could be an automated thing, that it wasn’t a person at all.
Noble Dust December 26, 2021 at 14:44 #635184
Really enjoyed this as well; the plot and story arc were really great. It just needs some work on grammar, and general tidiness of writing, etc. A compelling read overall that left me annoyed with my relatives interrupting me as I tried to read it here during the holidays...
praxis December 26, 2021 at 17:43 #635268
Enjoyed it and it really resonated. I kind of know the feeling of being lifted in this sort of way and then the eventual sinking back to normalcy. I’ve also taken many latin dance classes, including tango, and know how much mere confidence plays in performance.

Also like the ending where it looks like the mute caller thing could be a long chain of anonymous relationships.
john27 December 26, 2021 at 18:41 #635308
Quoting jamalrob
I didn’t take to this story at first, but when I got past the first couple of paragraphs it really pulled me in and I found it very compelling. Such a simple, strong setup. And then the development of her feelings as the phone calls continued, that was masterful.


Totally agree. I was a little off-put at first as well, but the story really grew on me. Great job.
Amity December 26, 2021 at 19:38 #635340
The Key

Quoting Baden
She heard the phone from behind the door. She struggled with the lock, her heavy bag of groceries and the file she had brought over in order to prepare for tomorrow’s lecture...
the task at hand required a rather more practical sort of discipline. Finally she managed to open the lock,


Opened the door with a struggle, burdened with a load of stuff.
Food for future digestion but right now in a rush to enter, to answer the phone.
And the key seems not to be cooperating, that or her juggling creates imbalance - a lack of harmony.

And that's all she needs. A heavy breather on the other end...

Quoting Baden
She knew she had to start studying, but wasn’t looking forward to spending the next two hours in dense texts and also preparing dinner.


Her heart doesn't seem to lie in plumbing the depths of philosophy or in preparing food. There's a sense of life ennui. So, ripe and ready for distraction - a new rush, a new entrance.
A key is a key is a key.

Quoting Baden
She heard the person of the other hand press one of the numbered keys on the phone producing a high beep tone. 'Beep'. She decided to answer in the same vein and press a key as well. The other pressed the key shortly twice, 'beep-beep'.


Keying in the simple code. Where would it lead ?

Quoting Baden
After this conversation she had a peculiar feeling. She felt as one would feel just before being formally introduced to a new acquaintance. The conversation hadn’t upset her; it had also not frightened her. She hadn’t even been very curious as to who the caller was. Yet she felt she met someone new, a sudden change in her environment.


A one-sided chat she can control without fear but in keen anticipation of a new direction.
Thrilling. She was on top compared to the lowness of her position as student. The lecturer, like the caller, unable to transfer his learning. It might as well have been a series of clicks or morse code. She didn't have his key to unlock the meaning. Dot. Dot, dot. Dash.

A rhythm. As in dance or music. A change of minor to major makes all the difference.

Quoting Baden
She was known as soft spoken, kind, but usually in the background of things, not wanting to impose. She could be considered shy. Dancing was different though. She thought of it as a game of thrusts and challenges, a game in which she could lose herself provided she danced with the right partner. Yes, in dance she could lose herself and merge with the music, the rhythm and the meticulously prescribed steps.


She is happier, coming out of her shell. Playing a game -'losing herself'.
That's what happens when you and the right partner merge as one and step out in close lock and key.
In harmony. It's the best feeling...
Back on the phone, it's out of synch... but still powerful...

Quoting Baden
The other being restrained to his use of the keys somehow granted her a power she rarely felt. She told him about a black dress, about black tango shoes, she even added that she would wear long earrings. “Are you satisfied with my choice of dress”, she asked playfully and maybe a little flirty. Beep, was her answer and then she decided to press down the receiver, disconnecting with a firm click.


Yeah, you know where this is heading. Boring old phone sex. Removed from reality but not.
Imagination >>> Creativity >>>Increasing confidence >>> More stimulus required>>>Addiction.

Addicted to love or the illusion of it. You and Everything seems brighter, better, more beautiful.
Who can resist this heady drug? The key opening the doors...

Quoting Baden
Her days became centered on his calls, skipping social events and drinks with friends in order to be home at four o’clock. The conversations grew longer and she confided more and more. She confided childhood secrets, problems within her family, painful memories about her ex boyfriends, and even more intimate details. The only responses were in the high pitched voice of a numbered key on her phone. Yet, when she would tell those things she felt like a feather was slowly caressing her breasts. The sounds of the numbered keys made her become who she was and made her find more and more of her true self, or so it seemed.


The Key. The Cause to Effect a Chain Reaction. But a change to a true self ? Hmmm.
This story makes you feel and think. You enter the flow. Even when it stops short. Dot.

Quoting Baden
Her descriptions lost their intimacy, as if she recounted the feelings of another. She didn’t know what to ask anymore, she had no more questions...She missed her calls, but somehow the magic was gone when talking to the man at the other end of the line. So too, was the magic gone from her dancing and from her essays.


Down time. Another change in the key of life. Cue Stevie Wonder.
She decides to return to a safer time of nostalgia. Still in control at a distance.
She calls the number she had found in the yearbook.
She is now the anonymous caller...pressing the keys.

Reminds me a little of the chain letters that used to go the rounds. Ah, nostalgia.

--------
Clever and captivating.
Love the symbolism of the key. To unlock new challenges and interpretations of self.
Opening up to a new personality. Or not.

Sometimes, I have problems with keys and locks. Fitting the key the right way round; which way to turn it. It depends on which door. The garage is a bummer. An upside down twist action required.
Wonder what Freud would say...
Sometimes a key is just a key but that don't make for good story-telling.

The author has a lot to answer for.
Damn it. I'm now in the mood for 'Unchained Melody' :heart:
All by myself. Answer phone on... :cool:




















Amity December 26, 2021 at 19:42 #635342
Quoting praxis
Also like the ending where it looks like the mute caller thing could be a long chain of anonymous relationships.


Yes. You next ? Up for it ? :wink:

I'd run a mile if an anon heavy breather called :scream:
Outlander December 26, 2021 at 20:39 #635382
Amazing. Little did we know the person on the other end of the phone... was God!

I find reading tedious in general so it's probably for that purpose I can relate to the comments of it "taking a while to get into" but ignoring that need to conform that allowed us to survive to this day, I have to say I really never got bored at any point in reading it. I do like, and though it's probably just a juvenile part of me where there's the mystery buildup that could potentially turn into horror/violence (the anonymous phone call trope), that definitely made me want to read more. Despite there being no horror, the character development and emotions that surfaced from seemingly nothing at all (random key tones) really made it equally exciting. And yes, the ending was really powerful. The 'ol the protagonist become the antagonist switcheroo type thing. But not in a dumb way like it often is. Very well done.

I too thought of the AI possibility due to the fact the tones convey emotion that at first glance doesn't seem to be applicable. That or it was really her in the future or a ghost (possibly her own) or something unrealistic but acceptable for a fun mind-bender story, etc.
praxis December 26, 2021 at 21:16 #635392
Quoting Amity
Up for it?


Anonymity naturally lends confidence. :strong:
Amity December 27, 2021 at 08:53 #635686
Quoting praxis
Anonymity naturally lends confidence.


You betcha - especially on TPF - confidence or foolishness... the burning addictive quality...

Quoting Hanover
I could identity with the loneliness of the main character, the safety of anonymity that technology allows, and the substitute of technology for real human contact it allows.

Maybe that's what TPF is, we're just responding to other beeps.


Beep, beep :cool:

Nils Loc December 28, 2021 at 05:28 #636000
The Key:It seemed she was carrying her private mirror with her, a mirror revealing only her best parts.


This lady has become her own therapist purely by the accident of a creepy anonymous caller. She's quite open given how one-sided the dialogue must be and maybe this is a consequence of her loneliness. I'm not sure how one could derive such a transformative high from divulging her life over the phone to a possible creep but this technique seemingly is the key to a new form of therapy. Keying the keys and beeping the beeps helps to keep this solipsistic symphony on time, opening the space and motivation for self reflection. As has been said already, I too was anticipating a phone bot of some kind. The end is fun as the roles switch and the trend is propagated.

This is what I'm doing right now, talking to anonymous callers who do not beep. One step below this woman, I key my own beeps, like a bird listening to its own echoes.

The story feels sophisticated and meaty. And if I was the author I would be proud of it.
Amity December 28, 2021 at 07:04 #636039
Quoting Nils Loc
Keying the keys and beeping the beeps helps to keep this solipsistic symphony on time, opening the space and motivation for self reflection. As has been said already, I too was anticipating a phone bot of some kind. The end is fun as the roles switch and the trend is propagated....
The story feels sophisticated and meaty. And if I was the author I would be proud of it.


How sexily succinct. Smooth operator :cool:
180 Proof January 04, 2022 at 12:48 #638590
The ending hooked me into an immediate rereading. Anonymous keys which lock rather than unlock unrequited loops. Sometime later that old Police tune "Wrapped Around Your Finger" earwormed me on a long walk. Intriguing story.
Baden January 05, 2022 at 14:49 #639065
Appreciated it as an inversion of the stalker narrative; the protagonist self-stalking by proxy as a form of therapy. Something very psychologically authentic about the dynamic, the way she could only access self-appreciation through an anonymous mirror. A very contemporary meditation on loneliness. One that really made me think.
Caldwell January 10, 2022 at 00:35 #640679
Quoting Baden
Her stranger still called her, but she felt she didn’t enjoy being called anymore. Her descriptions lost their intimacy, as if she recounted the feelings of another. She didn’t know what to ask anymore, she had no more questions. Gradually the phone conversations shortened. He stopped calling everyday, sometimes leaving long intervals. She decided not to pick up at four o’clock if he did. She missed her calls, but somehow the magic was gone when talking to the man at the other end of the line. So too, was the magic gone from her dancing and from her essays. The dress she bought seemed to have faded color.

The dreaded word -- infatuation. Short-lived.

Good story telling. But I cannot sympathize with the protagonist. Character development is important to me. Hard to do -- very, very few could pull it off.
180 Proof January 14, 2022 at 15:00 #642928
@Tobias – I really loved the Hegelian twist ...I should've guessed it was you. Reply to 180 Proof

Tobias January 14, 2022 at 15:53 #642945
@180 Proof @Amity @Baden @Caldwell @Hanover @jamalrob @john27 @Nils Loc @Noble Dust @Outlander @praxis

Thanks all for your commentary! Really enjoyed reading it. A meditation on loneliness, yeah, a loneliness of anonymous keys which lock rather than unlock unrequited loops...
Amity January 14, 2022 at 16:45 #642958
Quoting Tobias
A meditation on loneliness, yeah, a loneliness of anonymous keys which lock rather than unlock unrequited loops...


Quoting 180 Proof
I really loved the Hegelian twist


@Tobias - there's more to come about your story. Pray tell...

Why did 180 say he should have guessed it was by you?

Where did you get the idea, etc., etc.,
Do you have the time or inclination to share more?
Such as in the feedback @Baden and @jamalrob gave about their writing process....


Tobias January 14, 2022 at 17:03 #642970
@AmityAnswer phone on.... yeah the old answering machine... You heard the voice of the other, except that except that it was not really his or her voice. A voice is yours when you can make it do different things. Hearing an answering machine is always ... as if you are tricked into thinking the other is listening...

180 knows me well. I do have an affinity with situations turning into their opposite, hence his allusion to 'Hegelian'. Especially on the forum I take my position as the dour German's shield bearer.... He sees consciousness as traversing and developing through all such 'loops', yeah it fits :) :cool:

It was always intrigued the land lines from the early 90s. I worked in a call center to earn my student living and I would get the strangest of calls. This specific situation was inspired by an anecdote I was told. Back in her school days she was so in love with someone once that she could not bring herself to talk to him when he answered. Instead she knew nothing better than to press the key. That ended it all, but in my mind the situation might well have spiraled and spiraled...

Funny enough, when writing I never thought of it being a bot at the other end... funny how you miss such a thing when you write a story... It is also written quite some time ago... back in 2007 I think. It is a 'meditation on loneliness' as @Baden put it I guess. The first idea was to use this phone situation to put into words how love mediated by technology works, the asymmetry of information you have and how that asymmetry might actually allow for the transgression of boundaries that love entails. The same asymmetry though might also cause the disappearance of it. The fear that you do not really know the other and also never will takes over. Lines of communication that were matching suddenly seem not to and become strange and alienating.

On a second level though it is not really about love mediated by technology as much as it is my attempt at putting into words what love does in general. The asymmetry I think, is a perennial feature of love, less pronounced maybe in real life, but there in the same way nonetheless. I do not know if this feeling is recognizable, but the following feeling might hit you from time to time: "Who is that man/ woman sitting at my table?" As @180 Proof put it: "Anonymous keys which lock rather than unlock unrequited loops." Words do the same, maybe even touching each other's body does, they lock unrequited loops. Those words, those touches divulge and provide information, in order to reach that one goal, knowing the other. (We do not have the word, 'carnal knowledge' for nothing). You never really get there however, you never know... So we spin around and around each other, addicted to the feeling of knowing and being known, never able to let go, but always also fearing that 'you never really knew her'.

Actually that is where faith comes in I guess.... 'Faith', good faith, is they to overcoming the contradiction between 'wanting to know' and 'fearing not knowing' that love entails. That is something for another story....
Amity January 14, 2022 at 17:27 #642981
Quoting Tobias
I guess 180 knows me well ;) I do have an affinity with situations turning into their opposite, hence his allusion to 'Hegelian'.


I don't know much, if anything, about Hegel. Situations turning into their opposite...
Love to Hate. Ignorance to Knowledge. Desire to Fear. That kind of thing ?

Quoting Tobias
Back in her school days she was so in love with someone once that she could not bring herself to talk to him when he answered. Instead she knew nothing better than to press the key. That ended it all, but in my mind the situation might well have spiraled and spiraled


Reminds me a little of @180 Proof's story. The conflict re calling...picking up the phone, only to let it hang...for years...

Quoting Tobias
It is also written quite some time ago... back in 2007 I think. It is a 'meditation on loneliness' as Baden put it I guess.


Ah, interesting how some of the more personal stories come from the past. Is it easier to look back at both the experience and the story...from a distance ? I guess so.

Quoting Tobias
The fear that you do not really know the other and also never will takes over. Lines of communication that were matching suddenly seem not to and become strange and alienating.
[ ...]
The asymmetry I think, is a perennial feature of love, less pronounced maybe in real life, but there in the same way nonetheless


Yes. Even in love, we don't know how much is reciprocated. Do we feel more or less than the other.
A shifting balance of power.

Quoting Tobias
As 180 Proof put it: "Anonymous keys which lock rather than unlock unrequited loops." Words do the same, maybe even touching each other's body does, they lock unrequited loops. Those words, those touches divulge and provide information, in order to reach that one goal, knowing the other.


Fabulous writing from both. You seem to be on the same wave-length.
Spiritual twins or soul mates ?

Quoting Tobias
So we spin around and around each other, addicted to the feeling of knowing and being known, never able to let go, but always also fearing that 'you never really knew her'.

Actually that is where faith comes in I guess.... 'Faith', good faith, is they to overcoming the contradiction between 'wanting to know' and 'fearing not knowing' that love entails. That is something for another story....


Is it faith or trust ? Is there a need for either re the contradiction. Perhaps just accept it for what it is ?
A leap of faith...hmmm...

What I found interesting was the way a mind/body change can occur when one feels loved...even if it is delusional...



Tobias January 14, 2022 at 18:19 #642995
Quoting Amity
I don't know much, if anything, about Hegel. Situations turning into their opposite...
Love to Hate. Ignorance to Knowledge. Desire to Fear. That kind of thing ?


Yes, that kind of thing ... Actually people keep saying my interpretation of the man is wrong, so maybe it is more Heller than Hegel. Do you know Catch-22? It is a much more enjoyable read than Hegel and I feel just as deep. So if I have to give one philosophy recommendation it would be that one.

Quoting Amity
Reminds me a little of 180 Proof's story. The conflict re calling...picking up the phone, only to let it hang...for years...


Felice was actually the first story I read when I started reading. Why I do not really know, the name I guess. I was struck as well, that is after the mix of admiration and sadness subsided which resulted both from the content as well as well as from the realization I would not clinch the competition;)

Quoting Amity
Ah, interesting how some of the more personal stories come from the past. Is it easier to look back at both the experience and the story...from a distance ? I guess so.


Not really I think... you look at it differently maybe... The reason I submitted a story from the past is rather trivial. I wonder why, but for the life of me I would not be able to write a story now. Maybe it will come back, maybe not... I do not now.

Quoting Amity
Fabulous writing from both. You seem to be on the same wave-length.
Spiritual twins or soul mates ?


Thanks a lot! We have done a lot of logic chopping and dialectic jousting in the past. Always in a kind of productive disagreement. Or perhaps oppositional agreement in the end, I am really still not sure.:cool:

Quoting Amity
Is it faith or trust ? Is there a need for either re the contradiction. Perhaps just accept it for what it is ?
A leap of faith...hmmm...


Yes... accepting things as they are was never my strong suit, and I am kinda afraid of heights, sooo.... ;)

Quoting Amity
What I found interesting was the way a mind/body change can occur when one feels loved...even if it is delusional...


Yes me too. I find it fascinating. Just like the way colors suddenly seem to turn brighter and cheerful sounds more intense.

180 Proof January 14, 2022 at 20:47 #643061
Quoting Amity
Fabulous writing from both. You seem to be on the same wave-length.
Spiritual twins or soul mates ?

Tobias and I, IIRC, first "met" and jousted on the field of dialectic back in (or around) 2003 when I'd joined the old philosophy forums. After a few years, our jousts had reversed my prevailing "anti-metaphysical" stance (despite Spinozist affinities) for which I'll always be grateful. Not sure, however, that I've reciprocated the favor; nonetheless, I suspect we share a broad, deep understanding (i.e. dialectical monism aka "Fichte vs Adorno"???) much more so than we (or at least I) share with most other TPF philosopherizers. Thus, mutual recognitions of (self-reflections in) our respective stories: the other haunts the self like its shadow (re: Rimbaud's "Je est un autre" meets Ellison's unnamed "invisible man" meets Beckett's "unnameable" schizoid voices). A dao-like dance of Shiva – I wonder will @Tobias dis/agree. :death: :flower:
Tobias January 14, 2022 at 23:02 #643125
Very much agreed @Amity @180 Proof, and a bit lost for words actually. :blush: I cannot put it as eloquently as 180 can, but my experience was similar. Understandably, the trajectory was the other way around. Through these encounters my metaphysical stance reversed to a much more ethical one, or, to the idea that metaphysics emerges through ethics/ ecology and such disciplines should be investigated together. So yes, notions that there is always something excluded from thought, some excess, that we cannot reach by metaphysics. Come to think of it, I started out so firmly idealist, Well, that took a lot of hits during those jousts :lol:

My philosophical concern now, how to think philosophy erotically is much indebted by our discussions here on the forum, because they gave me a sensitivity towards the material and relational side and I benefit from these discussions much from this day, so very recognizable as well as reciprocal.

That question of the relationship to the other is I think fundamental to both of us and guides our practical concern to reach out to others on this forum. What I recognized, watched and tried to emulate is to make this reaching out 'real', not: "elusive, pale, Nordic, Konigsbergian", but actual, meaningful. There are many differences in style and approach, but a against the backdrop of a fundamental recognition. :smile:
Baden January 14, 2022 at 23:34 #643153
Quoting Tobias
I cannot put it as eloquently as 180 can


I remember saying years ago in the old PF when @180 Proof commented on my story "Cora" (which ironically is a siginifcantly more recent work than "A Cross for Maria"), I almost preferred his comment on my story to my story. :starstruck:
Tobias January 15, 2022 at 00:12 #643189
@baden :100: :up:
Amity January 15, 2022 at 09:16 #643349
Reply to 180 Proof
Reply to Tobias

Thank you both. To say I am in awe is an understatement.
The respectful jousting...the willingness to listen carefully...the change of stance.
Such a strong impact; seldom seen or acknowledged.

Quoting Tobias
That question of the relationship to the other is I think fundamental to both of us and guides our practical concern to reach out to others on this forum. What I recognized, watched and tried to emulate is to make this reaching out 'real', not: "elusive, pale, Nordic, Konigsbergian", but actual, meaningful. There are many differences in style and approach, but a against the backdrop of a fundamental recognition.


:fire: :heart: :sparkle:

Edit: was there a specific "Aha!" knock-out moment when you fell off your horse ?
ArguingWAristotleTiff January 15, 2022 at 15:02 #643408
@Tobias
Your writing leaves me speechless but so hopeful all the same :flower:
Masterful is the correct word for me as well.
180 Proof January 15, 2022 at 16:33 #643432
Quoting Amity
Thank you both.

De nada, señora. :blush:

Reply to Tobias :fire:
Tobias January 15, 2022 at 17:30 #643460
Quoting Amity
Edit: was there a specific "Aha!" knock-out moment when you fell off your horse ?


I have been unseated many times Amity, in many different ways and contexts...
Amity January 15, 2022 at 17:36 #643465
Quoting Tobias
I have been unseated many times Amity, in many different ways and contexts...


Please keep your backside outta this. It disturbs my flow...hmmm... would I give it 10/10 ? :starstruck:
I guess you both just wore each other down ?
Tobias January 15, 2022 at 18:54 #643497
@Amity May thy flow be constant, thy grades accurate, the stars in your eyes eternal and may there still be life left in the old guard... :wink:
Amity January 15, 2022 at 19:03 #643500
Reply to Tobias
Hmmmph. Sounds like a recycling job. Bet ya say that to all your students :razz:
The more mature, of course...
G'night. Sleep tight.
Tobias January 15, 2022 at 19:10 #643502
Quoting Amity
Sounds like a recycling job.


Of course! I have those lines collected in a big bucket on my desk and when the moment strikes I just blindly pick one. That is how us plodding profs get by... :flower:
180 Proof January 15, 2022 at 19:17 #643504
Quoting Amity
I guess you both just wore each other down?

Not at all. We're dancers, who sometime vie to lead, and even wrestle. A collaborative agon that has helped each of us develop further our respective positions in antithetical, hopefully beneficial, ways. In my case, @Tobias had provoked me to re-examine Spinoza, for instance, in a 'Hegelian manner' rather than from just a (predominantly) ecological-naturalistic perspective; this has encouraged me over the last decade and a half to develop an apophatic metaphysics (i.e. negative (dialectical) ontology ... Reply to 180 Proof) in contrast to (A) traditional / classical kataphatic metaphysics, (B) p0m0 "de(con)struction" of metaphysics and (C) anti-metaphysical postivisms / antirealisms. Tobias hasn't been the only influence on me but in hindsight no doubt our fruitful exchanges have been a very significant catalyst to my thinking. So "wore each other down"? More like we've showed one another a few different dance steps (or wrestling moves).
praxis January 15, 2022 at 19:34 #643509
Quoting 180 Proof
More like showed one another different dance steps (wrestling moves).


The story suggests that Tobias may have actual dance training, in tango at least.
180 Proof January 15, 2022 at 19:37 #643510
Reply to praxis :smirk:
Tobias January 15, 2022 at 20:45 #643528
Quoting Amity
I guess you both just wore each other down?


@180 Proof:100:

Indeed dancing usually leads to ... more dancing and wrestling, when the sparring is good, makes one want to enter the ring again. That is actually a great aspect of this forum. It does not only give one an opportunity to learn how to dance (wrestle), but also actually practice the moves, together with the one first showing you, but also with others in turn and see how they play out. There are many different styles to practice and holding one's own means learning to be agile, to incorporate the arguments of others in your own repertoire and see how it can be enriched.

I think that is mostly what it did. It does not drain, but enrich both 180 and myself kept a lot of our positions. 180 started out with, and keeps, apophatic moves and I started and keep cataphatic moves (the non identity of thinking and being vs the identity of thinking and being), but the way those moves are practiced and employed has undergone transformations. 180 adding a more conceptual(metaphysical) approach to his repertoire and me adding a more ecological approach. I used to examine 'being', by examining thought, and its conceptual apparatus. That changed into an investigation of thought by examining being.
For the insight that there is always something 'more' in actuality then can be metaphysically grasped, I am indebted firmly to 180 proof.

Edit: it is remarkable that also an interaction like this one challenges me to restate and therefore rethink my position. I do notice that my moves are rusty. I have been less active here the past four years and my work forces me to focus on law instead of metaphysics. It feels good to be back. :starstruck:

Quoting praxis
The story suggests that Tobias may have actual dance training, in tango at least.


I actually did... and I suck at it no matter how much I like dancing. :meh:
In fact dancing is an apt analogy to describe the forums and compare it to academic work. In academia you dance ball room tango, every move meticulously prescribed. Here you dance milonga, a much more lively and 'actual' form of dance, with actual partners who have a stake in it. Sure, you sometimes bump into each other and not everything runs equally smooth, but the skill necessary to master this form easily lives up to and sometimes surpasses that of the more stylized academic dance.

praxis January 15, 2022 at 22:09 #643570
Quoting Tobias
In fact dancing is an apt analogy to describe the forums and compare it to academic work. In academia you dance ball room tango, every move meticulously prescribed. Here you dance milonga, a much more lively and 'actual' form of dance, with actual partners who have a stake in it. Sure, you sometimes bump into each other and not everything runs equally smooth, but the skill necessary to master this form easily lives up to and sometimes surpasses that of the more stylized academic dance.


The Apollonian vs the Dionysian perhaps (I’m currently reading The Birth of Tragedy).

Argentine tango can be very improvisational, though I’ve never learned it well enough to enjoy that sense myself.