Play: What is it? How to do it?
This is a topic I'd like to hear a broad response to in whatever way tickles anyone's fancy.
I think play is something that we are generally taught to vie was 'childish' yet in maturity and adult development I believe recapturing our ability to play is of deadly importance - for cognitive development in general.
What theories of play interest you and what exactly is it that you are talking about when you think about 'play'? Also, what is a 'best' way to play?
I think play is something that we are generally taught to vie was 'childish' yet in maturity and adult development I believe recapturing our ability to play is of deadly importance - for cognitive development in general.
What theories of play interest you and what exactly is it that you are talking about when you think about 'play'? Also, what is a 'best' way to play?
Comments (56)
I observe that people don’t stop playing as they get older, they just change games. When people think of play as childish its really just certain kinds of play to which they refer, namely childish play. Then of course there are those that mistake their own sensibilities for maturity and erroneously label certain play as childish.
An example of that last point would be cosplay at a comic convention. This is a often viewed as childish where as something like wearing a jersey or painting your naked torso with team colours at a sports game is not. Clearly an error is being made cuz that shit is the same thing.
Our play simply get more complex, but they do not go away.
Recently, the Chinese government set down restrictions on (video) games, probably by limiting access to gaming platforms. However, this is where it gets interesting, it has, I believe, instituted a social credit system for its citizens which, in my book, is gamy gamy.
Quoting 180 Proof
Selections from my ludic library:
• Finite and Infinite Games, by James P. Carse
• Homo Ludens, by Johan Huizinga
• Skin in the Game, by Nassim Nicholas Taleb
• Play Unsafe, Graham Walmsley
Quoting 180 Proof
"Don’t play what’s there; play what’s not there."
~Miles Davis
Whatever else play may be, it has to be completely spontaneous. It has to come from inside each in accordance with our true nature. If it's of "deadly importance" it's not play. If it can be classified as good, better, or best, it's not play.
[i]Only where love and need are one,
And the work is play for mortal stakes,
Is the deed ever really done
For heaven and the future’s sakes.[/i]
Robert Frost. "Two Tramps at Mud Time"
New word. Thanks.
Let’s not forget Derrida. “ To pretend, I actually do the thing: I have therefore only pretended to pretend.”
“ Writing is irresponsibility itself, the orphanage of a wandering and playful sign. Writing is not only a drug, it is a game…”
I think play is living in the moment. Sometimes, but not always, that moment is fantasy. Nature might view play as practice, and serious business. Play, as natural, might agree. Play, as fantasy, might also agree. But let's not worry about such things. Let's play. This is serious business.
:up: :party:
Quoting Joshs
Oh no, let's forget Derrida (& his "traces" ...)
Yes, that might be another way of expressing the same concept. Goal-directedness is always thinking of a future state. And to achieve anything, one needs to do the right things one thing after another, serially, seriously.
I think both work and play can be executed in the moment, and both can be considered, before and after the fact, as goal-directed or otherwise. The question is, can the consideration itself be work and/or play in the moment? I suppose thinking about the past or the future, considering the past of the future, could itself be work or play in moment. Hmmm. I'd need to rethink some of my thoughts. :lol:
I play with a Roy.
I play.
I slay.
From Ruth Krauss. I think it’s in A Hole is to Dig but it might be Open House for Butterflies.
Serious play. Probably the place where I am most playful is with words. Playful language can be very serious. From "Romeo and Juliet:"
No, ’tis not so deep as a well, nor so wide as a church door, but ’tis enough. ’Twill serve. Ask for me tomorrow, and you shall find me a grave man.
Yes. I think this is a good way of thinking about it.
Is that like pretending you’re a president , and pretending you’re really a president?
What a wonderful topic. I love playing Scrabble. It was my school teacher grandmother who taught me to play the game. Winning is not my priority, because for me, playing Scrabble is about enjoying time with a child or a friend. There are many challenges besides winning, and one of them can be helping the other person to win as long as that is not too obvious. Or people can work together to cover all the red triple the word score squares. That is very hard to do.
I played Scrabble with a man who had dementia and my challenge was to give him plenty of places to make 4 letter words and then it was plenty of places to make 2 letter words as his dementia advanced. I hope you can see the joy we had in accomplishing using up all the tiles. We did not keep score for obvious reasons. It was about being friends and meeting our own challenges, not winning. :smile:
Excuse me, but I love work parties. You know, where everyone shows up to accomplish a goal, building a barn, or stuffing envelopes, or feeding over 100 people a Thanksgiving dinner. I also don't understand why being happy and working together is not the goal even when we are paid to do something. There isn't enough money in the world to pay for many of the jobs people do, so an employer needs to think of other ways to make the job enjoyable. Because they do not, I have volunteered most of my life instead of working for money.
I remember being isolated at home with my children and I could hardly wait for them to get in school so I could have a job with other adults and accomplish something in the adult world. I was horrified by how horrible many employers are. I am rather enjoying this moment in time when employers are struggling to get employees. Might they discover considering the happiness of the employees is a good policy?
Yeah! Absolutely! The democratic model for industry takes the social and accomplishment needs of the employees into consideration. We modeled our industry after England's autocracy back in the day when people were treated worse than animals. So many bad things are happening now, but maybe so many good things are happening? The need to treat people better is certainly in the news.
I conceive of Play as one of five ecstatic practices whereby a person (yoga-like) suspends her ego briefly, in effect, 'standing outside' of her quotidian, anxious & bored, self with more (sudden) awareness of others (i.e. more-than-herself). These five ecstasies are Sleeping, Playing, Praying, Meditating & Contemplating. Of interest here, Playing (to seek catharsis / distraction) consists of pretending, arts & crafts, games & sports, socializing & parties, love affairs, ... many aspects of social life. I think Play, along with Work (Arendt), socializes, edifies, even indoctrinates human beings. (Huizinga).
NB: Play, no doubt, is exhibited among all (at least) mammalian species and therefore, like Sleep, also has a primary biological function (or functions); with regard to humans, however, Play seems to be an indispensible driver of our cultural and cognitive development.
Everything you say is true, except the things you identify are not play. They're something else, something good, but not play.
I've been thinking that any long-term change will not be in the employers, but the employees. I think, maybe, a lot of people have seen that there is a better way to live. There's at least a 50% chance that's a pipe dream.
My hope is with the younger generation and women. Sure, they have their 10%, but generally they are better than what's been the dominant paradigm.
What suits you think of this?
Is, therefore, everything a cartoon?
That's exactly what the doctor ordered! :up:
Play may be seen as frivolous or as serious because it embraces fantasy. Winnicott spoke of the teddy bear as being an important transitional object in negotiationing symbolic meanings. Having grown up with a mother who loved teddy bears, I understand their significance and my own bear, Russell, who wears dungarees still remains on my bed. I love toys as transitional objects, because they take us into the realm of fantasy. I can also remember as a child pretending to be many different rock stars. As adults, it may be that we cast aside our toys and our fantasies and, perhaps, this is a loss and play can be an important factor throughout life, and not simply in childhood. Drama and the arts may incorporate some aspects of play.
I just wish to add that play may be an essential aspect of the creative process, because it involves both imagination and experimentation. It may be too harsh when people lose the ability to play in preference for work and grim aspects of reality. A certain amount of playfulness may be important for human meaning and, even fun, rather than misery and play may be important in the ability to see humour and, prevent seeing life in it most tragic form. Play may be important in philosophy in order to put ideas together creatively and to bring forth ideas in new ways.
What? How about trips to fun places such as the annual Steam Engine event where there is an old sawmill run on steam and many other old steam engines. I love going there! It is so exciting to me. Or going to an archeological dig, or exploring caves? I guess I am luckier than many folks as these things, including our local university library and the art museum enliven my inner child with delight. It is hard to imagine how anyone could have that feeling and distinguish it as different from play. Now I am really confused! If the joy I feel is not play, then what is play?
I like the way @bert1 said it:
Quoting bert1
All of the events you describe - the Steam Engine event, the archeological dig, etc. - could be play, but the events you were talking about previously:
Quoting Athena
These are goal oriented and I don't think of them as play. Maybe that seems nitpicky, but I don't think it is. The distinction is important. On the other hand, both things are wonderful.
Speaking of creativity is perfect! Much of our childhoods are spent creatively and imagining being adults. We play house and may play grocery store, or back in the day, it was cowboys and Indians modeling the TV shows we saw at the time.
I cheated and looked for an online definition of play.
My inner child is alive and well. :razz:
My goodness, when we play games we often play to win. I would not put the criteria of having no goals on the word "play", but do recognize those goals can ruin the fun if our head is to set on the goal there is no sense of fun. On the other hand, if we join a work party, there is a goal to accomplish something, but it doesn't feel like work if we are having fun. Wow, I am thinking hard on this and checking with how the different ideas make me feel. Does the idea feel right or wrong? I realize how many things I have stopped doing something because it is not fun. So for me, it is not if we want to win, or if have a goal, but how much fun we are having. If it isn't fun, I walk away, unless I am paid. Work is what I do for pay. :lol:
Tom Brady loves football, but when he goes out on the field, he's not playing. If you're trying to win, I don't see it as play.
There's no need for us to go into this a lot more if you don't want to. I can see your point. I have my own way of seeing it. The word "play" has room for both our views.
:rofl: I was just listening to a professor explaining the American mind. The lecture today was a series of philosophers who brought us to doubt. Don't we love philosophy? :grin:
I love facilitating workshops on healthy living and I don't consider that play either. It is more serious than play. But I think a person has a problem if winning a game of Scrabble is that serious. :lol: I think we can agree maybe there is not a distinct difference that is constant and unchanging? The same activity can be all about fun and can get very serious. I don't mind loosing to someone, but if I am loosing too badly I can get very serious about closing the gap. :lol: On the other hand, while trying to get across the importance of good health habits, if I am not having fun and not being fun, people don't come back. Even when we are being serious, it can be important to be fun. And if you are loosing the game of Scrabble too badly, it is time to get serious. :lol:
I'm fine with that.
As a matter of interest, the one thing I do every day that I consider play is participating in the forum.
If we are too serious about our arguments, perhaps we need counseling? A few things though really push my buttons and I turn into a crazy person. That is one of the reasons I believe respect is so important! When we are disrespected we can become defensive and feel the urge to attack. Then this is no longer play and it is no longer fun and it ruins threads.
Thankfully, most of the time the forum brings out my inner child, having so much fun learning new things or having a better understanding of what I believe is so. I think we have to feel safe for really good thinking to happen. When we feel safe we can explore our ideas and dare to be different and creative, and under such conditions, we all expand our consciousness.
The US no longer feels safe. Our minds are closing down and people are picking up weapons. We no longer allow our children to be as children but expect them to perform like college students as we rush to teach them what to think. Oh dear, my heart is sad. We need the spirit of play and for that, we need to feel safe. Thankfully, most of the people here are safe to engage with. Philosophy is so important!
What's going to be your reaction? [Choices not restricted to one emoji]
1. :rofl:
2. :angry:
3. :cry:
4. :meh:
5. :gasp:
6. :worry:
7. :chin:
8. :brow:
9. :confused:
10. :pray:
11. :roll:
One of the things I value about the forum is that it has taught me to be more patient and not to respond, at least not as often, to provocation.
Quoting Athena
I guess my problem is the opposite of yours. I have never been able to not say things that come to mind, even when I shouldn't.
Quoting Athena
I don't feel this way at all.
Quoting Athena
Yes.
There are religions that describe gods creating the world so that they would have someone to play with. I remember @Wayfarer writing about it.
Curious, why do you say they are better? I think the old paradigm was more patriarchal and as women gain power we become more matriarchal. That is more focused on feelings and children and the welfare of women. I remember when women did not exist except as extensions of men. Then one day I read a New Woman magazine there was the word "she" where always before there had been only the word "he". I don't know if women have changed, but rather our environment has changed in a huge way!
I am not sure all the consequences of that change will be good? Wanting our children to be as college students and competing against each other for their place is society, may have a very bad effect. Children need an atmosphere of play to explore who they are and have good feelings with their peers which become good feelings about who they are. I am afraid too many children are denied this childhood safety and end up mass murderers or struggling with emotional demons of unworthiness and helplessness?
Play is just the pleasurable side of practice.
I'll wait for Wayfarer to edify me.
Well, like I said, every group has there 10%, but in general:
Quoting Athena
I'm man enough to turn over the reigns and step back. It's time for a change, as far as I'm concerned. Good luck. Oh, and please don't do to us what we did to you. Although I can understand it if you do. And one other thing: Keep an eye on the Lauren Boeberts, Marjorie Taylor Greens and Sarah Palins of the world.
I try to ignore provocation but they get to me emotionally and that really ruins everything for me. I don't want to be sexist about this, but maybe there is a male/female difference? I am blown away by what some congresswomen are saying about male predatory behavior. This is not the thread for that debate, but I am amazed by how much things have changed! Women did not have the power they have today and I think this makes a huge difference!
Burned in my mind is what a school teacher said at the 1917 National Education Association Conference about the importance of being personal. Is a woman wrong to think a video about a man killing a woman is NOT funny? Is that taking a joke too personally? I am trying to respond to you and stay on topic but might men and women have a different experience of what is funny and what is not? In the early years of the internet, it was kind of like the wild west. I was constantly told I needed a thicker skin. Eventfully rules were made and the internet forums became more civil. However, we are dealing with the fear of teenagers taking their own lives because of internet activity. Parents are concerned about the internet NOT being a safe place for their children to play.
I don't remember reminding girls to play safely, but oh my goodness those boys! The boys absolutely love hitting things with a stick, pushing, and shoving. Again and again the boys would start out laughing and having a good time and this turned into anger and serious hitting. They thought it was so unfair that I would stop them before things got mean. One could think evolution made boys different from girls? :lol: Good back on topic, do girls and boys play the same?
What of the Native Americans renewing their fight to have treaties respected and where their land can not be returned to have fair compensation for that? What of the Blacks pointing out how housing discrimination has hurt them for generations bleeding into wanting acknowledgement of the wrongs done to them, and White people feeling very threatened by what could be the end of their domination?
Quoting TheMadFool His post is perfect for this discussion!
We are not dealing with just better technology but a huge shift in consciousness! It is not just the women folk having a stronger voice, but all people who were excluded from the White man's grab for wealth and power. This is not just socialism versus capitalism but justice and morality versus being pretty ignorant and primitive and brute force ruling.
I choose #1 :rofl:
I love your insight. :heart:
On second thought, there was a time when God tried to wipe us off the face of the earth. That would be angry or disapproving. He is a pretty emotional chap, so maybe He has had all those feelings at one time or another.
Yes, this is off subject, but you keep going on, so I'll have my say just this once. And, yes, this is something I feel strongly about. Women who say they want to be respected but then blame the problems of our society on men rather than taking their share of the responsibility are hard to take seriously.
You're right, this is not the right discussion.
Sounds good to me. But if it's in a treaty, then don't fall for the "fair compensation" BS. Just give them back the land. It's called "specific performance" in equity. If we want to give money to those who "improved" the land, then pay them, as they pack their trash and get the hell out.
I Noah guy who had information on that! :wink: