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Intuition

Wheatley November 09, 2021 at 01:06 9750 views 60 comments
Philosophers like to point out different ways of acquiring knowledge. There's deductive reasoning, empirical knowledge, and intuition. Mathematicians (as an example) acquire knowledge using deductive reasoning. Scientists gain empirical knowledge by gathering data. And philosophers gather wisdom from their intuition. Consider these two passages from Britannica's page on intuition:

Moral philosophers from Joseph Butler to G.E. Moore have held that moral assertions record knowledge of a special kind. The rightness of actions is discovered by a special moral faculty, seen as analogous to the power of observation or the power of intuiting logical principles. This theory, like that which holds logical principles to be the outcome of intuition, bases its case on the self-evident and unarguable character of the assertions with which it is concerned.

Two further technical senses of intuition may be briefly mentioned. One, deriving from Immanuel Kant, is that in which it is understood as referring to the source of all knowledge of matters of fact not based on, or capable of being supported by, observation. The other is the sense attached to the word by Benedict Spinoza and by Henri Bergson, in which it refers to supposedly concrete knowledge of the world as an interconnected whole, as contrasted with the piecemeal, “abstract” knowledge obtained by science and observation. (link)

There seems to be two assumptions made by philosophers here:

1. Humans have an innate "intuitive" faculty.
2. We can readily rely on this faculty to obtain knowledge.

Objection to 1: The idea that we all possess intuitive faculties is a considerable assumption. How does on go about substantiating such a claim?

Objection to 2: Science often makes discoveries that are counter-intuitive. In fact, history shows us that scientific breakthroughs are made by challenging traditional assumptions and intuitions.

Thoughts?

Comments (60)

Pantagruel November 09, 2021 at 01:21 #618435
Yes, ,much of everyday human reasoning is fraught with technical difficulties (viz. cognitive biases). So there is some faculty which counterbalances sensory reasoning. I personally have always enjoyed a highly-developed intuitive sense. It's no mystery to me that there is such a thing.
Wheatley November 09, 2021 at 01:23 #618436
Quoting Wheatley
How does on go about substantiating such a claim?

Quoting Pantagruel
It's no mystery to me that there is such a thing.

We definitely have intuitions, I agree. However, the OP is concerned about intuition as a mental faculty.

From my understanding, intuitions are developed from experience and practice. Doctors, for example, gain intuitions about medicine by treating patients. My question is, is it necessary to postulate intuition as a mental faculty that allows us to obtain metaphysical knowledge? We all have intuitions in our everyday lives, that is certain. But to go ahead postulating an intuitive mental faculty is surely unwarranted.
Wheatley November 09, 2021 at 01:57 #618442
Quoting Pantagruel
Yes, ,much of everyday human reasoning is fraught with technical difficulties (viz. cognitive biases). So there is some faculty which counterbalances sensory reasoning.

Is that a psychological fact, or speculation?
Quoting Pantagruel
I personally have always enjoyed a highly-developed intuitive sense.

And have you acquired any knowledge with your "highly-developed intuitive sense"? Perhaps you can give me an example.

Pantagruel November 09, 2021 at 02:46 #618457
Reply to Wheatley Cognitive biases are a well-established fact. The vast majority of people reason fallaciously in a wide variety of circumstances.

Intuition has formed the basis of my professional career in troubleshooting computer systems. For a self-trained engineer, I have enjoyed considerable success. I feel it has guided my studies equally well. I've heard it described as "immerse yourself in your subject matter....and wait." I'd say that's accurate.
Wheatley November 09, 2021 at 02:54 #618461
Quoting Pantagruel
Cognitive biases are a well-established fact. The vast majority of people reason fallaciously in a wide variety of circumstances.

I know about the cognitive biases.

Quoting Pantagruel
Intuition has formed the basis of my professional career in troubleshooting computer systems. For a self-trained engineer, I have enjoyed considerable success. I feel it has guided my studies equally well. I've heard it described as "immerse yourself in your subject matter....and wait." I'd say that's accurate.

That's similar to what I said.
Quoting Wheatley
From my understanding, intuitions are developed from experience and practice. Doctors, for example, gain intuitions about medicine by treating patients. My question is, is it necessary to postulate intuition as a mental faculty that allows us to obtain metaphysical knowledge? We all have intuitions in our everyday lives, that is certain. But to go ahead postulating an intuitive mental faculty is surely unwarranted.






Wheatley November 09, 2021 at 03:58 #618482
In Philosophy Without Intuitions, Herman Cappelen focuses on the metaphilosophical thesis he calls Centrality: contemporary analytic philosophers rely on intuitions as evidence for philosophical theories. Using linguistic and textual analysis, he argues that Centrality is false. He also suggests that because most philosophers accept Centrality, they have mistaken beliefs about their own methods.To put my own views on the table: I do not have a large theoretical stake in the status of intuitions, but unreflectively I find it fairly obvious that many philosophers, including myself, appeal to intuitions. (link)

Intuitions in Philosophy: A Minimal Defense
Wheatley November 09, 2021 at 04:21 #618485
[b]Philosophy without Intuitions
Herman Cappelen
ABSTRACT
The claim that contemporary analytic philosophers rely extensively on intuitions as evidence is almost universally accepted in current meta-philosophical debates and it figures prominently in our self-understanding as analytic philosophers. No matter what area you happen to work in and what views you happen to hold in those areas, you are likely to think that philosophizing requires constructing cases and making intuitive judgments about those cases. This assumption also underlines the entire experimental philosophy movement: Only if philosophers rely on intuitions as evidence are data about non-philosophers’ intuitions of any interest to us. Our alleged reliance on the intuitive makes many philosophers who don’t work on meta-philosophy concerned about their own discipline: they are unsure what intuitions are and whether they can carry the evidential weight we allegedly assign to them. The goal of this book is to argue that this concern is unwarranted since the claim is false: it is not true that philosophers rely extensively (or even a little bit) on intuitions as evidence. At worst, analytic philosophers are guilty of engaging in somewhat irresponsible use of ‘intuition’-vocabulary. While this irresponsibility has had little effect on first order philosophy, it has fundamentally misled meta-philosophers: It has encouraged meta-philosophical pseudo-problems and misleading pictures of what philosophy is[/b]. (link)




Wheatley November 09, 2021 at 04:25 #618487
We have evidence in OP that well respected philosophers have historically utilized intuition. And then you have David Chalmers (prominent philosopher) disagreeing with Herman Capellen (from Oxford) who denies how central intuition is to philosophy.

What a mess!
Mww November 09, 2021 at 17:08 #618640
Quoting Wheatley
Two further technical senses of intuition may be briefly mentioned. One, deriving from Immanuel Kant, is that in which it is understood as referring to the source of all knowledge of matters of fact not based on, or capable of being supported by, observation.


“....Our knowledge springs from two main sources in the mind, first of which is the faculty or power of receiving representations (receptivity for impressions); the second is the power of cognizing by means of these representations (spontaneity in the production of conceptions). Through the first an object is given to us; through the second, it is, in relation to the representation (which is a mere determination of the mind), thought. Intuition and conceptions constitute, therefore, the elements of all our knowledge, so that neither conceptions without an intuition in some way corresponding to them, nor intuition without conceptions, can afford us a cognition. Both are either pure or empirical. They are empirical, when sensation (which presupposes the actual presence of the object) is contained in them; and pure, when no sensation is mixed with the representation. Sensations we may call the matter of sensuous cognition....”
(CPR, A50/B74)

I guess it is left to us whether the power for the “receptivity of impressions”, is theoretically distinguishable from observation. If it isn’t, then intuition as a source of knowledge “not based on, or capable of being supported by, observation”, is false.

Objection: The idea that we all possess intuitive faculties is a considerable assumption. How does on go about substantiating such a claim?

Rebuttal to the objection: That human sensory apparatus is affected by the impressions the world makes on them is provable scientifically and justified logically, hence not considerable as an mere assumption, and at the same time sustaining the claim for some sort of intuitive faculty or power by which such impressions are necessary constituents in a system.
———-

Objection: Science often makes discoveries that are counter-intuitive. In fact, history shows us that scientific breakthrough are made by challenging traditional assumptions and intuitions.

Rebuttal to the objection: That science makes breakthrough challenging extant intuitions, is sufficient presupposition for them, which supports the rebuttal to the first objection. That which is counter-intuitive doesn’t negate the power of intuition itself, but at most merely some content of it.
————

Quoting Wheatley
My question is, is it necessary to postulate intuition as a mental faculty that allows us to obtain metaphysical knowledge?


No. Intuition is for empirical knowledge alone, which concerns itself with the physical domain. Metaphysical knowledge, in its proper sense, is a priori, which concerns itself only with conceptions and their relations to each other. What we perceive requires intuition to understand; what we merely think, does not.

That an old system such as Kant’s has never been proven wrong doesn’t make it correct, just continuously useful, if only against which new systems are judged.








T Clark November 09, 2021 at 17:29 #618643
Quoting Wheatley
Thoughts?


This is something I've thought a lot about, but haven't really done my homework on, so I'm stepping out a bit on thin ice based on 1) What little I have read and 2) My own experience of intuition.

Most human learning is not learning facts. Babies don't learn facts, they build themselves a world, at the start without language. That world view includes all the important information they need to live in the world. It's based on their observations of and interactions with the outside, but also on innate, instinctual capacities that all humans have. We, as fully grown humans, still carry that world around inside us, although it has grown and evolved as we've grown. The baby's, and our, worlds are not made up of facts. Most of the things we know have never been proven to us. In my understanding, and experience, that factless world is the basis of intuition.

People look down on intuition, but it is much more powerful and effective than what we call knowledge. Our intuition is the fundamental basis of our intellect. To not recognize its importance is mind-bogglingly arrogant.

Wheatley November 13, 2021 at 10:43 #619873
Quoting T Clark
People look down on intuition, but it is much more powerful and effective than what we call knowledge. Our intuition is the fundamental basis of our intellect. To not recognize its importance is mind-bogglingly arrogant.

Then I must be "mind-mindbogglingly arrogant". If I had to choose between a book that contains knowledge and a book that contains somebody's intuitions, I would choose the former. Simply put: it's better to know.
Wheatley November 13, 2021 at 11:17 #619877
Quoting Mww
: That science makes breakthrough challenging extant intuitions, is sufficient presupposition for them,

How so? If anything, science has introduced doubts about our intuitive ability. Presupposing them then would be counter-productive.

Quoting Mww
That which is counter-intuitive doesn’t negate the power of intuition itself, but at most merely some content of it.

I agree.
Outlander November 13, 2021 at 11:38 #619879
There seems to be two prominent (not necessarily mutually exclusive) avenues of thought.

Biology, in short the more you do in life specifically the choices that result in a dopamine "net positive" aka reward are neural pathways that are "carved out" as an old instructor of mine would say.. the more you seem to "intrinsically" lean toward them. This could be essentially what that "gut feeling" is. Which makes sense as far as the whole evolutionary advantage process argument goes. Why would you not learn from your mistakes and successes and wish to either avoid or repeat them respectively from every fiber of your being? It would only be logical to assume that those who do would live longer, gain more rewards and avoid more hazards than someone who does not.

Or.. it could be something a bit more.. metaphysical. Spooky, even. Again we wouldn't know for certain if either is the case let alone mutually exclusive.
Wheatley November 13, 2021 at 11:47 #619881
Quoting Mww
That an old system such as Kant’s has never been proven wrong doesn’t make it correct, just continuously useful, if only against which new systems are judged.

It doesn't seem right to use Kant's system as standard to judge other systems merely on the bases that Kant's system hasn't been disproved. The fact that Kant has never been refuted is just a testament to how hard it is to refute a philosophical position. That being said, I have no reason to accept Kant's philosophy, nor his ideas about intuition.
TheMadFool November 13, 2021 at 13:35 #619887
Insofar as morality is concerned, yes, it's got a lot to do with intuition - that's the only possible explanation why we don't have a logically rigorous theory on good & bad despite being deeply concerned and committed to the cause of the good for the better part of 2 millennia.

It seems like we have a grainy picture of a, well, Platonic morality, an ideal-case scenario of what right and wrong are but, like a bad scientific theory, time and again the model we have in our heads fails to match the reality on the ground - a square peg in a round hole situation. On more occasions than we can count we've demonstrated errors in our intution. Is morality a mistake, a logical boo-boo, an unrealistic concept that has no place in the actual world?

On the flip side, there have been cases where our intuitions were bang on target - some of our conjectures have been proven right/true.

To make the long story short, intuition/insight can't be dismissed outright but they can't be given the nod of approval its proponents are fighting for.
Mww November 13, 2021 at 14:58 #619904
Quoting Wheatley
That an old system such as Kant’s has never been proven wrong doesn’t make it correct, just continuously useful, if only against which new systems are judged.
— Mww
It doesn't seem right to use Kant's system as standard to judge other systems merely on the bases that Kant's system hasn't been disproved.


Not a standard in juxtaposition to its falsification, but to its explanatory novelty.

Quoting Wheatley
: That science makes breakthrough challenging extant intuitions, is sufficient presupposition for them,
— Mww
How so?


Can’t challenge something that comes after the challenge, right? Seems like any challenge of anything implies a necessary temporal order.

Quoting Wheatley
The fact that Kant has never been refuted is just a testament to how hard it is to refute a philosophical position.


Generally speaking, yes. On the other hand, it could be a testament to how hard it is to refute a logical proof that grounds a philosophical position.

There are other senses of intuition than Kant’s. All I’m saying is that the link can be interpreted as conflicting with one of its referents.
Wheatley November 13, 2021 at 15:31 #619909
Quoting Mww
There are other senses of intuition than Kant’s. All I’m saying is that the link can be interpreted as conflicting with one of its referents

:up:
Wheatley November 13, 2021 at 15:43 #619910
This is the last time I'm using Britannica. :angry:
Nickolasgaspar November 13, 2021 at 16:41 #619917
Reply to Wheatley Quoting Wheatley

1. Humans have an innate "intuitive" faculty.
2. We can readily rely on this faculty to obtain knowledge.

Objection to 1: The idea that we all possess intuitive faculties is a considerable assumption. How does on go about substantiating such a claim?

Objection to 2: Science often makes discoveries that are counter-intuitive. In fact, history shows us that scientific breakthroughs are made by challenging traditional assumptions and intuitions.

Thoughts?


You are right to object against those two assumptions.
Their foundations are nothing more than a "Texas sharpshooter fallacy" or confirmation bias.

Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky's life-work was all about counting ALL the "bullets" on the sharpshooter's Target board!
They not only find statistical issues with all our Heuristics, they demolished intuition and any assumption that matched the above two!.
The work of those two Psychologists ended up winning a Nobel Prize...listen...in Economics!
Yes, Economists immediately understood the power of this knowledge and the real life implications in our economies!

Now, we know about the bad performance of intuition in epistemology for almost 20 years now(2002 Nobel of economics) but we still have pseudo philosophers, sophists and religious people recycling the same claims in favor of intuition and selectively pointing the hits and totally ignoring the huge volume of misses.
This practice, once again, highlights the problem with "Philosophy". Most people assume that they can do meaningful philosophy without the need to be scientifically informed on the subject.

For those who are interested in finding out how many years this research lasted and what were the result they can read Daniel's book "Thinking Slow and Fast", or listen him talk about his findings in panels and lectures all over the internet.

Thanks for addressing this topic.
T Clark November 13, 2021 at 16:48 #619922
Quoting Wheatley
Then I must be "mind-mindbogglingly arrogant". If I had to choose between a book that contains knowledge and a book that contains somebody's intuitions, I would choose the former. Simply put: it's better to know.


Your response has ignored the content of my post.
Wheatley November 13, 2021 at 16:58 #619924
Reply to T Clark
I have nothing to say about the content of your post because (like you said) it is based on anecdotal evidence.

I didn't agree with your conclusion. So I responded to that.

You also made the jump from talking about facts in your second paragraph to talking about knowledge in your third paragraph. I don't believe knowledge consists of facts. A physicist professor can be very knowledgeable about physics, but that knowledge is not merely a collection of facts. Their knowledge may include a deep understanding of the physical world, mathematics, and a background of related things.
magritte November 13, 2021 at 23:14 #620098
Quoting Wheatley
Philosophers like to point out different ways of acquiring knowledge. There's deductive reasoning, empirical knowledge, and intuition. Mathematicians (as an example) acquire knowledge using deductive reasoning. Scientists gain empirical knowledge by gathering data. And philosophers gather wisdom from their intuition.


Intuition is a subjective personal source for suggesting possible beliefs which is far from being a source of any kind of knowledge. Intuitions are deeply psychological, exactly the sort of thing rational philosophy should be distancing itself from.

Intuitions are guesses but not raw guesses. For example, mathematical or artistic intuition starts with loading one's mind with everything already known on some narrow topic. Then subconsciously, which means without rational deliberation, testing many combinations of possibilities, even while sleeping, which pop into the conscious mind suddenly with a best fit guess to a problem. The result can remembered and further developed rationally.

The philosophical or mathematical method starts with one of these private guesses made into a public hypothesis. Public hypotheses are tested by other people to assess usefulness. This sort of public knowledge can remain as a best explanation until something better or more complete comes along.
Wheatley November 13, 2021 at 23:37 #620118
Quoting magritte
Intuitions are deeply psychological, exactly the sort of thing rational philosophy should be distancing itself from.

:party:
Wheatley November 13, 2021 at 23:40 #620121
Quoting Nickolasgaspar
Thanks for addressing this topic.

Np.
magritte November 14, 2021 at 00:07 #620137
Reply to Wheatley There is a bug in your reply.

I take it that you agree with me (and Plato) that the assessment of any sort of knowledge based on psychological intuition has to be dead wrong?

Edit: Since most people in the Western hemisphere are asleep at this hour, I'll dissolve another take from the OP Quoting Wheatley
Objection to 2: Science often makes discoveries that are counter-intuitive. In fact, history shows us that scientific breakthroughs are made by challenging traditional assumptions and intuitions.

This is not wrong, it's just nonsense. As I already pointed out, intuitions are private psychological hunches based on what each of us has already learned. Public scientific discoveries are almost always counterintuitive, otherwise they would have been known to the ancients' intuitions.

Science is counterintuitive because the world that scientific instruments measure is different from our inborn naive intuitions of what the world we imagine ought to be. The fault is with our subjective psychological intuitions and not with objective scientific instruments. The scientific world is totally hidden from the naive conceptions of un-instrumented primitives like us.
Deleted User November 14, 2021 at 06:21 #620223
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
Nickolasgaspar November 14, 2021 at 06:58 #620237
Reply to tim wood
Intuition is a heuristic that is used to make sense of a situation and inform our decisions or opinions. They are based on generalisations biases and previous experiences.
Intuition is more of guessing than "knowing" and a Nobel awarded scientific study showed that statistically our intuition performs really bad.

So even if intuition is an ability of our brains to make guesses without all the facts, our modern environment renders it a disability due to its high rates of failure.
It's not a credible path to knowledge and in any case we can never accept any Intuitive guess on face value without objective evaluation.

Knowledge refers to instrumentally valuable statements that are in agreement with current facts of reality.


Wheatley November 14, 2021 at 07:55 #620241
Quoting magritte
There is a bug in your reply.

I'll reply again. :smile:

Quoting magritte
Intuition is a subjective personal source for suggesting possible beliefs which is far from being a source of any kind of knowledge. Intuitions are deeply psychological, exactly the sort of thing rational philosophy should be distancing itself from.

I wouldn't say "any kind of knowledge". I believe that we all have personal knowledge that is not shared with the public.

Quoting magritte
Intuitions are guesses but not raw guesses. For example, mathematical or artistic intuition starts with loading one's mind with everything already known on some narrow topic. Then subconsciously, which means without rational deliberation, testing many combinations of possibilities, even while sleeping, which pop into the conscious mind suddenly with a best fit guess to a problem. The result can remembered and further developed rationally.

Intuitions are not guesses, guesses are guesses. Saying intuitions are guesses would make intuitions interchangeable with guesses. Thus we could stop talking about intuitions and start talking about guessing. I personally do now know exactly what intuition is. It's one of those fuzzy words/concepts.

Quoting magritte
I take it that you agree with me (and Plato) that the assessment of any sort of knowledge based on psychological intuition has to be dead wrong?

I wouldn't say "dead wrong". I would agree that intuitions are not a contribution to public knowledge.

Quoting Wheatley
2. We can readily rely on this faculty to obtain knowledge.

Quoting Wheatley
Objection to 2: Science often makes discoveries that are counter-intuitive. In fact, history shows us that scientific breakthroughs are made by challenging traditional assumptions and intuitions.

Quoting magritte
This is not wrong, it's just nonsense. As I already pointed out, intuitions are private psychological hunches based on what each of us has already learned.

It is nonsense if we assume your definition of intuition.
Public scientific discoveries are almost always counterintuitive, otherwise they would have been known to the ancients' intuitions.

Public scientific discoveries always go against our best guesses and hunches, otherwise, the ancients would have known our science.

Science is counterintuitive because the world that scientific instruments measure is different from our inborn naive intuitions of what the world we imagine ought to be. The fault is with our subjective psychological intuitions and not with objective scientific instruments. The scientific world is totally hidden from the naive conceptions of un-instrumented primitives like us.

I wouldn't say that the scientific world is totally hidden from our view, The scientific world is right there in front of us. Science only offers us a better and more accurate understanding of the natural world. It is true that science gathers data that were previously inaccessible to ordinary people, but that doesn't imply that science replaces what humans ordinarily believe. Science only adds to public knowledge, it doesn't take anything away from us ordinary people.
Wheatley November 14, 2021 at 09:43 #620267
Quoting tim wood
So what exactly is intuition? It is the ability to know something without analytic reasoning, bridging the gap between the conscious and non-conscious parts of our mind."

I don't believe there is an exact definition of "intuition". Dictionaries provide definitions, however, we don't use dictionaries in philosophy.
Wheatley November 14, 2021 at 09:46 #620268
Quoting tim wood
It seems the sort of thing we all know and understand, but I find when I look more closely, I don't. I know something about odds and "gut feelings" and experience. These all fuzzy. But does it resolve into something definite under the right focus, or is it fuzzy all the way down?

Exactly. It all seems uncertain to me.
Deleted User November 14, 2021 at 16:02 #620351
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
Miller November 14, 2021 at 18:40 #620426
Quoting Wheatley
Science often makes discoveries that are counter-intuitive.


The intellect is no less flawed than the intuition. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. But even better when they work together.





magritte November 14, 2021 at 19:24 #620444
Quoting Wheatley
is it fuzzy all the way down? — tim wood
Exactly. It all seems uncertain to me.


In one of the more abstract courses in college math, the prof presented much material in rapid succession with many of the proofs peppered with "it is intuitively obvious that blahblah". After class I admitted that those steps were not intuitively obvious to me and I asked for guidance. He said that those proofs were intuitively obvious to any mathematician and I would see that after a few more math courses.

The picture of intuition I have already presented is the one to be found in some Plato (perhaps the Meno and Theaetetus). According to the SEP, is also the median position to be found in modern philosophy as
S has the intuition that p if and only if S is disposed to believe p
This emphasizes the psychological disposition component of personal belief applicable to epistemology. The advantage is that my nasty reference to many scientific instrumental worlds can be ignored for the sake of argument.
Yohan November 15, 2021 at 08:35 #620649
Quoting Nickolasgaspar
Intuition is a heuristic that is used to make sense of a situation and inform our decisions or opinions. They are based on generalisations biases and previous experiences.
Intuition is more of guessing than "knowing" and a Nobel awarded scientific study showed that statistically our intuition performs really bad.

You are using generalizations and heuristics to conclude that intuition doesn't work. In other words, you are not being rigorous but relying on "intuition" to dismiss intuition.
Nickolasgaspar November 15, 2021 at 09:20 #620655
Reply to Yohan lol...Pointing to an work that was awarded by the Nobel comity is not a generalization or heuristics. Maybe you don't understand what a generalization or heuristics are.
You need to study the actual publication or read the impact this study had and still has in our economic theory and applications or read Kahneman's book that analyzes the methods and their conclusions.
Scientific methods do not include heuristics or generalizations in their Descriptive Frameworks.
I understand that you are trying to protect an ideology that might be based solely on intuitive claims but you don't get to accuse science and its methods for using heuristics or generalizations.
Removing those practice WAS the main reason why we came up with science in the first place.
Yohan November 15, 2021 at 09:46 #620659
Nickolasgaspar November 15, 2021 at 10:00 #620660
Reply to Yohan
You can read all about his awarded study(methodologies and foundings) in his book which for academic reasons( I suppose) is available in PDF format all over the internet for free.
You can also watch his lectures and talks on the subject.
http://dspace.vnbrims.org:13000/jspui/bitstream/123456789/2224/1/Daniel-Kahneman-Thinking-Fast-and-Slow-.pdf
Wheatley November 15, 2021 at 11:04 #620664
The problem with social science definitions is that they use what is called an operational definition. As far as I am aware, philosophy doesn't use operational definitions.

Reply to magritte Quoting magritte
The picture of intuition I have already presented is the one to be found in some Plato (perhaps the Meno and Theaetetus). According to the SEP, is also the median position to be found in modern philosophy as
S has the intuition that p if and only if S is disposed to believe p

Okay. I guess we all need to keep in touch with more up-to-date contemporary philosophy.
Antony Nickles November 21, 2021 at 08:13 #622601
Reply to WheatleyQuoting Wheatley
1. Humans have an innate "intuitive" faculty. 2. We can readily rely on this faculty to obtain knowledge.


Emerson will call it the genius that each of us have, but it is more in relation to an opportunity than something innate. Is it unobjectionable to say we all have different interests, are attracted to different things? We can be drawn into the world (Heidegger). Not that we are the cause of making our will known, our are grasping some knowledge special to us, but in the sense of our knowing our way, which one is ours (or ignoring it). We can make that intelligible not by intention or our meaning, but because of the interests and identities and distinctions and ordinary criteria embedded in our culture and lives--our conformity to it Emerson calls it, or our aversion from it.

To call it a "faculty" is a picture which would lead us to want to know the nature of it, it's source, it's constitution, it's authority, it's power, etc. This sets it up as part of human nature, rather than as part of the human condition, a place we at times find ourselves in.
TheMadFool November 21, 2021 at 12:08 #622621
Quoting Wheatley
There seems to be two assumptions made by philosophers here:

1. Humans have an innate "intuitive" faculty.
2. We can readily rely on this faculty to obtain knowledge.

Objection to 1: The idea that we all possess intuitive faculties is a considerable assumption. How does on go about substantiating such a claim?

Objection to 2: Science often makes discoveries that are counter-intuitive. In fact, history shows us that scientific breakthroughs are made by challenging traditional assumptions and intuitions.


An example will perhaps illustrate the difference between intuition and logic:

Say you visit a store to buy some things. You're not paying attention (like all of us) to what you're doing. Picking up a few items you rush back to the clerk at the counter. You absent-mindedly place the items you want to buy on the table. The clerk then scans the items and tells you, without batting an eyelid, "that'll be $3000 sir."

Intuition: You picked up, what?, a maximum of 3 items. To be on the safe side let's make that 5. You remember glancing at the most expensive item you chose and you recall the last time you bought one it was around $20. A back-of-the-envelope calculation (5 × $20 = $100). The clerk has made a mistake or the calculator is broken.

Logic: You ask the clerk to tell you the price of each item. You turn on the calculator app on your phone and do the math. You look at the cashier/clerk, disapprovingly of course, and tell her she's made a mistake.

Intuition: :brow:

Logic: :nerd:
the affirmation of strife November 21, 2021 at 12:13 #622622
Response to OP. Objection 1 brings a lot of baggage with the words "innate" and "faculty". For example, I do not think the assumption to be that far off when softened to: Humans exhibit an "intuitive", i.e. fast and involuntary mode of cognition from an early stage of development. I am however in agreement with objection 2, probably from the same perspective as @magritte. Knowledge is learned. Intuition can, on occasion, reveal a shortcut to our rational cognition.

Response to thread:

Quoting Pantagruel
I personally have always enjoyed a highly-developed intuitive sense.

I hear that cats have fast reactions. Does their physical ability (strength, dexterity, etc.) benefit from this over time?

Quoting Nickolasgaspar
people assume that they can do meaningful philosophy without the need to be scientifically informed on the subject.

An uncomfortable truth (full disclosure: I took no more than a single undergrad course). Still, its hard to find people willing to even talk about philosophy... and I guess it's a kind of therapy for some of us. Or just a way to kill time for shut-ins. Maybe we need a new thread: What is the value of this forum? :wink:

Quoting Miller
The intellect is no less flawed than the intuition.


The flaw of the intellect is surely its laziness. However, its outputs are statistically more valuable. See, e.g. the work by Kahneman that @Nickolasgaspar;619917 has spoken of.

Quoting Yohan
not being rigorous


@Nickolasgaspar;619917 was referencing work which is indeed scientifically rigorous. The book title is actually "Thinking, Fast and Slow". My main criticism is that Kahneman isn't able to pick an audience: the book is both too long and dense for leisure reading, and not technical enough for scientific reference. Still, it's a good travel companion.

Quoting magritte
Science is counterintuitive because the world that scientific instruments measure is different from our inborn naive intuitions of what the world we imagine ought to be. The fault is with our subjective psychological intuitions and not with objective scientific instruments.

:up:

Quoting TheMadFool
An example will perhaps illustrate the difference between intuition and logic:


This has raised more questions for me: you've put the multiplication into "intuition", and it is clearly some very simple maths, but I'm not sure I wouldn't have put it into "logic"/"intellect"... Maybe the divide is not so sharp...
TheMadFool November 21, 2021 at 12:20 #622624
Quoting the affirmation of strife
This has raised more questions for me: you've put the multiplication into "intuition", and it is clearly some very simple maths, but I'm not sure I wouldn't have put it into "logic"/"intellect"... Maybe the divide is not so sharp


Intuition seem to be more of an emotion - it feels right/it feels wrong.

Logic - it's right/it's wrong.

That's why I alwats felt/believed that realization (feeling the truth e.g. an equation) is more important than "mere" comprehension



the affirmation of strife November 21, 2021 at 12:31 #622626
As I'm joining the Kahneman bandwagon on this, I feel it's only fair to give a taste of the limits of intuition:

As you consider the next question, please assume that Steve was selected at random from a representative sample:

An individual has been described by a neighbor as follows: "Steve is very shy and withdrawn, invariably helpful but with little interest in people or in the world of reality. A meek and tidy soul, he has a need for order and structure, and a passion for detail." Is Steve more likely to be a librarian or a farmer?

The resemblance of Steve's personality to that of a stereotypical librarian strikes everyone immediately, but equally relevant statistical considerations are almost always ignored. Did it occur to you that there are more than 20 male farmers for each male librarian in the United States?


As others here have said, it quickly gets into the realm of psychology...
TheMadFool November 21, 2021 at 13:47 #622638
Quoting the affirmation of strife
limits of intuition


:up: I had a different opinion up until I read what you wrote!

As you consider the next question, please assume that Steve was selected at random from a representative sample:

An individual has been described by a neighbor as follows: "Steve is very shy and withdrawn, invariably helpful but with little interest in people or in the world of reality. A meek and tidy soul, he has a need for order and structure, and a passion for detail." Is Steve more likely to be a librarian or a farmer?

The resemblance of Steve's personality to that of a stereotypical librarian strikes everyone immediately, but equally relevant statistical considerations are almost always ignored. Did it occur to you that there are more than 20 male farmers for each male librarian in the United States?


Now where did I read that? :chin:

Why are farmers so far down the Hackliste?

Did you know?

Astronomy, science, then math (the rest is history) were all simply byproducts of farming? A farmer should be proud as hell that his profession opened the doors to civilization as we know it. Who would've thought such was the truth? I definitely wouldn't but that's because I wasn't paying attention. :joke:
Miller November 21, 2021 at 16:23 #622682
Quoting the affirmation of strife
its outputs are statistically more valuable


The intellect is superior, says the intellect.

Meanwhile god laughs at your plans.
john27 November 21, 2021 at 16:40 #622695
Quoting Wheatley
Objection to 1: The idea that we all possess intuitive faculties is a considerable assumption. How does on go about substantiating such a claim?


One could say that this idea is intuitive in and of itself, and if the average, or majority of humanity were to read this text and primarily think yeah, that seems about right, we would all possess an intuitive faculty.
the affirmation of strife November 22, 2021 at 00:17 #622842
Quoting Miller
Meanwhile god laughs at your plans.


If only he could share with me what they were. :smile: For the sake of argument, let us assume this laughing deity exists. Did He create the world intuitively, in your view? I only ask, because someone once said that God does not play dice...
Joshs November 22, 2021 at 00:35 #622847
Reply to Wheatley I’d just like to point out that within phenomenology intuition means something quite different than the way it is being defined in the OP.

“Husserl’s brand of intuition has nothing to do with a view of intuitions as mere sensations of a strictly subjective nature with no real objective reference, no matter how strong the sensations are. An intuitive experience is not a revelation of a hitherto hidden reality to a passive consciousness, a sort of mundane annunciation in which one is impregnated with truth without really knowing how.

For Husserl, the concept of intuition is required on both the ontological and epistemological levels in order to ground the concepts of truth and knowledge, and it is nothing more than a generalization of the notion of perception.”(Jairo Da Silva)
Tom Storm November 22, 2021 at 00:41 #622848
Reply to Joshs Interesting. So what is an example of intuition operating in this way?
the affirmation of strife November 22, 2021 at 00:49 #622850
Reply to Tom Storm I wonder if my above example works for this. You didn't really gain any new revelations from reading it, right? You just "percieved" that Steve was described as a bit of a nerd. And then made some connections with other preconceptions. But maybe Josh has a better example.
Tom Storm November 22, 2021 at 00:55 #622852
Reply to the affirmation of strife Not sure this illustrates what form intuition takes in Husserl's phenomenology which distinguishes it from conventional intuition.
Joshs November 22, 2021 at 01:31 #622860
Reply to Tom Storm Quoting Tom Storm
So what is an example of intuition operating in this way?


The simplest sense impressions; color , sound ,touch sensation, are examples of basic intuitions for Husserl prior to their being synthetically connected into higher order objects.
TheMadFool November 22, 2021 at 03:31 #622877
Quoting Miller
Meanwhile god laughs at your plans.


It stopped being funny a long time ago. :grin:
Iwantitall November 22, 2021 at 03:45 #622881
I believe the answer to this problem is that knowledge and intuition have separate and integral functions and should not be viewed in a hierarchy, as if one should always give way to the other.

I think in the context of this thread we can view truth as what is, and knowledge as what we know about what is. So what constitutes knowledge is pre-established, already known, readily proveable facts. Intuition, on the other hand, is more of a quick, short hand assessment of what *appears* to be accurate
.
Most people must draw conclusions in a time and resource constrained environment. This is where intuition really come in handy.Almost everyone admits that neither they nor humanity knows EVERYTHING. So you can say that within any field of knowledge there remains an element of the unknown. That's where "learning" comes in. When one attempts to learn, they must draw upon what they already know (knowledge) while also advancing into what they don't know. Often, when all the facts are not yet known, one must use their intuition to bridge the gap between the unknown and the known, since the known alone is not enough.

Intuition can clearly be improved by knowledge. Look at the example @the affirmation of strife gave earlier
An individual has been described by a neighbor as follows: "Steve is very shy and withdrawn, invariably helpful but with little interest in people or in the world of reality. A meek and tidy soul, he has a need for order and structure, and a passion for detail." Is Steve more likely to be a librarian or a farmer?

The resemblance of Steve's personality to that of a stereotypical librarian strikes everyone immediately, but equally relevant statistical considerations are almost always ignored. Did it occur to you that there are more than 20 male farmers for each male librarian in the United States?


It appears to one's intuition that a librarian would fit Steve's personality better than a farmer. However, one could intuitively know Steve was more likely to be a farmer if they were simply knowledgeable of statistical analysis or knew a lot about psychology.

Now, here is the more subtle part. Just as one's intuition can be improved by their knowledge, one's knowledge can be improved by their intuition. In the example that @TheMadFool gave us,
Say you visit a store to buy some things. You're not paying attention (like all of us) to what you're doing. Picking up a few items you rush back to the clerk at the counter. You absent-mindedly place the items you want to buy on the table. The clerk then scans the items and tells you, without batting an eyelid, "that'll be $3000 sir."

Intuition: You picked up, what?, a maximum of 3 items. To be on the safe side let's make that 5. You remember glancing at the most expensive item you chose and you recall the last time you bought one it was around $20. A back-of-the-envelope calculation (5 × $20 = $100). The clerk has made a mistake or the calculator is broken.


...you use your knowledge (this is how much groceries should cost) to fuel your intuition ($3000 is to much to pay for groceries) to then make more intuitive judgements (this asshole cashier overcharged me!) to then finally come to a "conclusion" (sometimes cashiers overcharge you). That useful conclusion was only reached because you had a very negative gut reaction to a number the cashier gave you. Knowledge only provided the information; your intuition proppeled you into reactions. Intuition is like a less accurate, more fluid knowledge that allows you to react quickly enough to grow and learn in real life situations. Without that ability, you wouldn't encounter as much learning experiences as you otherwise would, and then you wouldn't accrue as much knowledge.

My point is that knowledge and intuition should be used together, and the idea that one is superior to the other is really creating a false dichotomy, a real non-problem.
Mww November 22, 2021 at 12:12 #622947
Sense impressions being given, and from them, comparatively speaking.......

Quoting Joshs
So what is an example of intuition operating in this way?
— Tom Storm

The simplest sense impressions; color , sound ,touch sensation, are examples of basic intuitions for Husserl prior to their being synthetically connected into higher order objects.


....what is it that connects?
....connected synthetically, with what?
....connected into what higher order object?
....where does the higher order object reside?
....what is the function of such object?

Quick little one-word answers, or short phrases, would be fine.



Joshs November 22, 2021 at 17:39 #623003
Reply to Mww Quoting Mww
....what is it that connects?
....connected synthetically, with what?
....connected into what higher order object?
....where does the higher order object reside?
....what is the function of such object?


All perceptual experiences are based on associative
synthesis, wherein ‘higher’ senses are constituted out of simpler ones drawn from memory on the basis of likeness and similarity. ‘Real’ spatial objects are concatenations of new sense data, memory and expectations.
Mww November 22, 2021 at 21:08 #623099
Reply to Joshs

Ok. Thanks.
Nothing November 22, 2021 at 22:36 #623143
Maybe, try to quite your mind, thoughts, do you get better or lesser intuition ?
Sit with friend in room, his goal is to ask you, do you know that this pen sit on table, (you didnt notice it in concious), you try hard, is maybe answer in the air - intuition ?
Bylaw November 26, 2021 at 19:09 #624412
Quoting Wheatley
Then I must be "mind-mindbogglingly arrogant". If I had to choose between a book that contains knowledge and a book that contains somebody's intuitions, I would choose the former. Simply put: it's better to know.


But we don't have to choose between those two, we can use both and use both well. In fact we all rely on intuition all the time. Some of better, some worse at specific areas of being intuitive and many experts have excellent intuition. We don't have the luxury of using only knowledge. If we waited for everything to be verified in that way, we could not live. Further in applying knowledge, interpreting knowledge steps in doing this would involve intuition. Or do involve it, I should have said.
baker November 27, 2021 at 18:25 #624702
Quoting Wheatley
My question is, is it necessary to postulate intuition as a mental faculty that allows us to obtain metaphysical knowledge?


Doing so appears to be specifically religiously motivated, as a retrospective (presumably, retroactive) justification for holding a particular religious belief.