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The underpinnings of politics.

Torus34 October 11, 2021 at 18:45 5225 views 18 comments
The present red/blue, Democrat/Republican, liberal/conservative bifurcation in the United States of America is a rich field for philosophical discussion. One of the [to me] more interesting corners to root around in is back-tracking from the current set of beliefs of either side to constructing a coherent underlying philosophy. This can become particularly gnarly when attempting to marry the tenets of evangelical Christians with the present Republican Party.

Disclaimer: This poor old country mouse is a secular humanist. That places me philosophically outside the boundaries of either faction more than somewhat.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

Comments (18)

Deleted User October 11, 2021 at 18:55 #605922
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
Tom Storm October 11, 2021 at 18:57 #605923
Reply to Torus34
Isn't it simply the case that politics has become tribal and dumbed down around themes such as freedom versus social control and that tribalism is galvanised along principles such as 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'?
Torus34 October 11, 2021 at 19:02 #605928
Reply to tim wood Hi, Tim!

Are you saying that the philosophy of the Republican Party at present is essentially the same as that of the evangelical Christians?

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
Torus34 October 11, 2021 at 19:03 #605929
Reply to Tom Storm

Hi, Tom. That's part of it, of course, but it's hard to assemble all of those beliefs into a coherent philosophy. The word 'coherent' is carefully chosen.

Regards.
Tom Storm October 11, 2021 at 19:07 #605931
Reply to Torus34 I'm not sure that politics as practiced involves coherent beliefs, more like loose themes and perceptions. The main game is getting elected and appealing (however that looks) to a base which is constantly evolving. In practice politics is marketing.
Deleted User October 11, 2021 at 19:09 #605932
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Joshs October 11, 2021 at 19:31 #605935
Reply to Torus34 Quoting Torus34
One of the [to me] more interesting corners to root around in is back-tracking from the current set of beliefs of either side to constructing a coherent underlying philosophy


I think this Atlantic piece does a pretty good job of identifiying the major ideologies involved:

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/619012/
Tom Storm October 11, 2021 at 19:52 #605945
Reply to Joshs Packer makes good points.
NOS4A2 October 11, 2021 at 20:36 #605961
Reply to Torus34

The ideology undergirding all factions is that of statism, as it invariably will be. No other principle can reign over this one because the intention of any political party is to seize the state machinery, thereby attaining control of it, and thus power over everyone else. The people, facing the progressive loss of their own power, are left to use their measly right of suffrage, to vote for some power-seeking careerist, perhaps with the view that he possesses some remnant of a principle similar to their own, but never a 1-to-1 ratio.

So to answer why the statist would vote for a party that contradicts his own principles, it’s because he couldn’t do otherwise.
180 Proof October 11, 2021 at 20:47 #605966
Quoting Joshs
I think this Atlantic piece does a pretty good job of identifiying the major ideologies involved:

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/619012/

Four Americas: "Free", "Smart", "Real" & "Just". Packer's essay leaves out a fifth, the one that matters most because it strategically exacerbates (though does not (have to) create) and leverages the divisions among the others for control: Oligarch America. As the Romans used to say: cui bono? – or follow the fuckin' filthy lucre – if you really want to understand "the underpinnings" of the last three centuries of Murican politricks.
Torus34 October 12, 2021 at 10:59 #606183
Reply to Tom Storm Hi again.

You may be right. Thus, my search for the underlying philosophy may be in vain. If I'm not careful, though, we'll get into a discussion over 'proving' a negative! ;-)

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
Torus34 October 12, 2021 at 11:02 #606187
Reply to tim wood

Hi again, Tim.

We agree [I think,] on the Republicans, especially when they present as Mr. Donald Trump, being a poor ideological match with Christian evangelicals. One might quip that it's not exactly a match made in Heaven.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
Torus34 October 12, 2021 at 11:05 #606189
Reply to Joshs

Hi!

Thank you for the link. I'll certainly read it.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
Torus34 October 12, 2021 at 11:07 #606190
Reply to NOS4A2

Hi, NOS4A2!

It may take me a while to get my head around your post. Thank you for taking time to respond.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
Torus34 October 12, 2021 at 11:10 #606192
Reply to 180 Proof

Hi, 180 Proof! [I'm more of a wine man myself.]

I've not yet read the article, so I can't respond directly to your comment. That America is 'controlled' in a number of ways by an oligarchical structure is a good observation.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

Tzeentch October 12, 2021 at 11:20 #606193
There's only two flavors of politics. The path of force (authoritarianism) and the path of freedom (libertarianism). Everything in between is opinion, and more often than not, hypocrisy.
Torus34 October 12, 2021 at 12:56 #606211
Reply to Tzeentch

Hi!

That's a point, of course. I suspect that a nit-picker would add anarchy. There are times when extreme simplification can provide insight. There are other times when a finer-grained approach provides more opportunity for a deeper exploration.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
180 Proof October 12, 2021 at 20:36 #606381
Quoting Tzeentch
There's only two flavors of politics. The path of force (authoritarianism) and the path of freedom (libertarianism). Everything in between is opinion, and more often than not, hypocrisy.

:up: