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What is philosophy? What makes something philosophical?

Bret Bernhoft October 05, 2021 at 05:04 7750 views 65 comments
I took up an interest in philosophy about ten years ago, and since then I have learned a quite a bit; relatively speaking. That said, I'm interested in hearing from those whom are more knowledgeable than I am on the subject of philosophy, as to what it actually is/means.

What is philosophy?

Can you explain to me what makes something a philosophy or philosophical?

How does one intentionally participate in philosophical dialogue?

Where can I turn for a reliable and insightful explanation of philosophy?

Thank you for your time and help.

Comments (65)

Mww October 05, 2021 at 14:17 #604116
There are as many answers as there are those that answer, but here’s one:

“....Of all the a priori sciences of reason, therefore, mathematics alone can be learned. Philosophy—unless it be in an historical manner—cannot be learned; we can at most learn to philosophize. Philosophy is the system of all philosophical cognition. We must use this term in an objective sense, if we understand by it the archetype of all attempts at philosophizing, and the standard by which all subjective philosophies are to be judged. In this sense, philosophy is merely the idea of a possible science, which does not exist in concreto, but to which we endeavour in various ways to approximate, until we have discovered the right path to pursue—a path overgrown by the errors and illusions of sense—and the image we have hitherto tried in vain to shape has become a perfect copy of the great prototype. Until that time, we cannot learn philosophy—it does not exist; if it does, where is it, who possesses it, and how shall we know it? We can only learn to philosophize; in other words, we can only exercise our powers of reasoning in accordance with general principles, retaining at the same time, the right of investigating the sources of these principles, of testing, and even of rejecting them.

In this view philosophy is the science of the relation of all cognition to the ultimate and essential aims of human reason, and the philosopher is not merely an artist—who occupies himself with conceptions—but a lawgiver, legislating for human reason. In this sense of the word, it would be in the highest degree arrogant to assume the title of philosopher, and to pretend that we had reached the perfection of the prototype which lies in the idea alone....”
(CPR A838-9/B866-7)


180 Proof October 05, 2021 at 15:32 #604142
Quoting Bret Bernhoft
What is philosophy?

Others surely will offer different takes on "philosophy" according to their respective preoccupations (e.g. mine is 'human' agency), so here's how I define it today:
Philosophy is the study and art of reflectively reasoning to better, more probative, questions as a way to practice living, what Socrates called, "the examined life".

Can you [s]explain to[/s][describe for] me what makes something a philosophy or philosophical?

At minimum, IME, "the philosophical" consists in supposing, or proposing, reflections which make explicit ordinarily implicit (i.e. unreflective) discursive uses, misuses and abuses of e.g. concepts, criteria, questions, problems, knowledge, etc. Understanding, or making explicit (i.e. problematizing), is the endless task, path, ladder ... of opposing – escaping from – "confusion, contradiction and folly" (~@unenlightened) as much as one is able.

How does one intentionally participate in philosophical dialogue?

Study dead philosophers and (honestly, non-fallaciously, charitably) discuss your studies with students living philosophically.

Where can I turn for a reliable and insightful [s]explanation[/s][expression] of philosophy?

Here is a link that may satisfy this query.
Sam26 October 05, 2021 at 17:05 #604175
Quoting Bret Bernhoft
What is philosophy?


Philosophy uses philosophical methods of inquiry (logic, language, epistemology, etc) to analyze beliefs or belief systems. You can't escape philosophy, we all do it, its just a matter of whether we do it well or not. If you have beliefs about life, morality, politics, science, mathematics, family, business, then you're doing philosophy. So, all of us are philosophers to one degree or another.
Gnomon October 05, 2021 at 17:07 #604177
Quoting Bret Bernhoft
What is philosophy?

FWIW, here's my attempt to define "philosophy", for the purposes of my personal worldview. :

Philosophy :
The ancient Greeks began to distinguish the rational search for understanding of the world from the myth-making of religion. They became skeptical of prophets & seers, who were often ambiguous or dead-wrong in their proclamations. So they decided to rely on the only source of knowledge they could trust implicitly, their own personal reasoning ability. Unfortunately, the disciples of philosophers, like those of religious founders, tended to turn their time- & culture-bound doctrines into dogmas for all times & places. But by judicious application of information from all three forms of knowing, we can enjoy the practicality of Science, the Mystery of Religion, and the Rationality of Philosophy. [See Philosophy popup]

Since modern Science has become very successful at discovering practical physical knowledge, and Religions still have mass appeal as the gateway to supernatural wisdom, Philosophy has been relgated to the nerdy niche of metaphysical understanding. So philosophers usually offer their expert opinions on a few basic questions : 1. How can we know what’s real & true? (Ontology), 2. What is the right thing to do? (Ethics), and 3. What should we believe? (Values) The latter is not about blind Faith, but about the science of Probability. Philosophy is not a practical method for influencing Nature, or other people, but only for self-control. So it’s purpose is merely to correct your own worldview, your vision of reality.
http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page16.html
T Clark October 05, 2021 at 20:36 #604222
Quoting Bret Bernhoft
Can you explain to me what makes something a philosophy or philosophical?


For me, philosophy is an activity that helps increase my awareness of how my mind works, especially why I believe what I believe and how I know what I know.
jgill October 05, 2021 at 22:28 #604254
As I might practice it, it's speculation. However, the literature shows that is a specific formal philosophical pursuit.
Deleted User October 05, 2021 at 23:15 #604268
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
Tom Storm October 05, 2021 at 23:16 #604269
There's something in Ambrose Bierce's definition of philosophy:

"A route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing."
180 Proof October 05, 2021 at 23:47 #604276
Quoting Tom Storm
There's something in Ambrose Bierce's definition of philosophy:

"A route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing.

:up: He (or maybe Mark Twain) might have inspired
Philosophy is like being in a dark room and looking for a black cat.

(Metaphysics is like being in a dark room and looking for a black cat that isn't there.

Theology is like being in a dark room and looking for a black cat that isn't there, and shouting "I found it!")

whereas
Science is like being in a dark room looking for a black cat while using a flashlight.

Tom Storm October 06, 2021 at 00:12 #604286
Reply to 180 Proof That's it, 180! So far its the Epicureans that make the most sense to me. Fortunately I have spent no time looking for non existent black cats but I can see it's a popular pursuit.
Outlander October 06, 2021 at 00:40 #604302
A never-ending meal of infinite courses that one can enjoy without any physical sense or sensation.
T Clark October 06, 2021 at 01:18 #604319
Science is like being in a dark room looking for a black cat while using a flashlight.


If that's true, then philosophy is the instructions for using the flashlight.
Manuel October 06, 2021 at 02:17 #604327
Reply to Bret Bernhoft

It helps me to think of it as a historical subject. We try to understand the world and ourselves. When we arrived at the scene, when the first human beings acquired the capacity to articulate thought, we tried to comprehend what was happening.

At first we told stories. Stories usually related with dietes associated with the creation of the Earth, the rivers, the sea. Gods moved the winds and sacrifices guaranteed good fortunes. Thunder was the anger of the Gods.

At some point, we gathered in large enough numbers to refine our thinking into more precise and accurate accounts of the world, not relying on myths, but on observing the world closely.

By these means, we achieved considerable success in mathematics and parts of astronomy. But many questions pertaining to us and the world remained problematic:

How can we step on the same river twice? How can we reach a target if there are an infinite number of events separating an apple from an arrow? How do we speak of one entity being the same person if they've gone crazy? How can thought arise from matter? And so on.

Fast forward thousands of years and we get science, based on observing the world under the guidance of an explanatory theory. We reduce the entities analyzed and focus on select things to study, putting aside phenomena that interfere with a theory.

We couldn't, after all, fire a canon ball around the Earth's surface. But given certain conditions (removing friction, for instance) we find out that the same force that causes an apple to fall causes the movement of the moons and planets.

But after all this, questions still remain. Important questions and hard ones. What is a self? Do we have free will? Is the world independent of me or a product of our way of ordering the world? What is a good life? How can matter produce thought? What is causation? How many things are there in the world? And so on.

Philosophy, then, is the rational enquiry into very hard question, on topics we have barely been able to make progress in for thousands of years.

The confusion on what philosophy is likely stems from the fact that some of the best philosophers in history, were also scientists. If you asked Hume, are you a scientist or a philosopher he could not say. Same with Descartes and Kant and Leibniz and Locke and many others. To them, there was no distinction.

For the Greeks even less so.

At least that's how I think of the topic.
180 Proof October 06, 2021 at 03:02 #604340
Bret Bernhoft October 06, 2021 at 05:42 #604368
Thank you to everyone who has responded to this thread. I am admittedly still learning how to effectively form philosophical arguments that are informed by learning and experience. I guess I feel intimidated by the sophistication of communities such as this one, wherein active/passive members and visitors are able to so eloquently build meaning and move hearts with their philosophies. And so simply/clearly too. That is what I'd like to be able to do with my own philosophizing.
TheMadFool October 06, 2021 at 07:45 #604382
Reply to Bret Bernhoft This just dawned on me! Perhaps I should've had this epiphany a long time ago, about the time I had the pleasure cum pain of having encountered paraconsistent logic and non-Euclidean geometry. Others, surely, have understood this a long time ago.

The realization: There really is no reason why we can't, shouldn't, invent/create worlds, presently only mental ones seem possible, with their own set of rules/laws; one could even build a world sans any laws/rules at all. The possibilities are endless you see. One could then simply decide to live one's life in the world one has made thus. You might want to, as a primer, look at :point: logical nihilism.

Amity October 06, 2021 at 08:43 #604396
Quoting Bret Bernhoft
I took up an interest in philosophy about ten years ago, and since then I have learned a quite a bit; relatively speaking.


10 years learning about philosophy - and you've learned what and from where ?



Amity October 06, 2021 at 08:44 #604398
Quoting T Clark
Science is like being in a dark room looking for a black cat while using a flashlight.

If that's true, then philosophy is the instructions for using the flashlight.


And asking why the hell do I want to find a black cat in a dark room ?


Tom Storm October 06, 2021 at 09:24 #604403
Quoting Amity
10 years learning about philosophy - and you've learned what and from where ?


Yeah, I was going to ask this but got sidetracked.
Bret Bernhoft October 06, 2021 at 11:14 #604414
Reply to Tom Storm

Yes, I am still gathering the pieces of what philosophy truly is. I've studied dozens of thinkers and philosophies, but primarily from an intellectual perspective, not so much a wisdom perspective.

With all of that said, to me, philosophy is about understanding truth. And getting excited when you find out that you've been wrong in your thinking for decades. Perhaps philosophy (for me) is primarily an exercise in different thinking patterns.

It sure would be interesting to involve biofeedback with philosophical training.
Srap Tasmaner October 06, 2021 at 14:37 #604447
Reply to Manuel I find it hard not to look at philosophy as whatever inquiry isn't science. Historically, philosophy as an ongoing pursuit keeps spinning off whatever bit of itself is cleaned up enough, made precise enough to do actual research, into a science. Once upon a time, that was nothing. Then physics and biology. The early moderns are still full of not-yet psychology. There's a lot of linguistics along the way.

Philosophy seems always to be whatever's left. That can be hopeful: philosophy as a sort of minor leagues or a training ground for what will eventually become science. Or it can mean that the stubborn bits are just muddles that of course cannot be made into science. To many, too many for my taste, it means philosophy is about the Big Questions, questions science cannot help you with, because they're so, you know, Big.
T Clark October 06, 2021 at 16:26 #604469
Quoting Amity
And asking why the hell do I want to find a black cat in a dark room ?


It's Schrodinger's cat. We need to check to see if it is alive, dead, or both.
180 Proof October 06, 2021 at 16:30 #604471
Quoting T Clark
It's Schrodinger's cat. We need to check to see if it is alive, dead, or both.

It's neither.

Quoting Amity
And asking why the hell do I want to find a black cat in a dark room ?

Or asking whether or not I am the black cat I'm trying to find in a dark room?
Amity October 06, 2021 at 16:34 #604473
Reply to T Clark Reply to 180 Proof
And why is this important, again?

T Clark October 06, 2021 at 16:34 #604474
Quoting 180 Proof
It's neither.


Yes. Thanks for the clarification.
180 Proof October 06, 2021 at 16:37 #604475
Reply to Amity Why do you ask?
Amity October 06, 2021 at 16:37 #604476
Quoting Tom Storm
10 years learning about philosophy - and you've learned what and from where ?
— Amity

Yeah, I was going to ask this but got sidetracked.


Yeah, that happens. I note that my question was not answered by @Bret Bernhoft.

Amity October 06, 2021 at 16:45 #604481
Reply to 180 Proof
Why do you ask ?



180 Proof October 06, 2021 at 17:42 #604489
Reply to Amity Exactly.
Amity October 06, 2021 at 18:29 #604499
Tom Storm October 06, 2021 at 18:44 #604501
Quoting Bret Bernhoft
I've studied dozens of thinkers and philosophies, but primarily from an intellectual perspective, not so much a wisdom perspective.


What do you think is the difference?

Quoting Bret Bernhoft
It sure would be interesting to involve biofeedback with philosophical training.


Please say more. I have no knowledge of biofeedback.

Quoting Bret Bernhoft
Perhaps philosophy (for me) is primarily an exercise in different thinking patterns.


I thought philosophy was about ideas. What are thinking patterns? Are you talking about habitual patterns of approaching life/problems that might require... adjustment?

Yohan October 06, 2021 at 19:23 #604508
I doubt this distinction is precisely accurate but is may be vaguely useful?
Philosophy: Abstract speculation, with an emphasis on not contradicting axiomatic intuitions.
Science: Concrete speculation, with an emphasis on not contradicting sense experience.

Mww October 06, 2021 at 19:30 #604510
Reply to Yohan

That I like. I might have used axiomatic principles, but I didn’t come up with it, so.....
Yohan October 06, 2021 at 19:47 #604511
Reply to Mww thanks.
I think it sounds better: an emphasis on not contradicting axiomatic principles.
Yohan October 06, 2021 at 20:00 #604515
Another experiment:
Science: Examining reality
Philosophy: Examining thought.
Spirituality: Examining the examiner
Tom Storm October 06, 2021 at 20:05 #604517
Quoting Yohan
Another experiment:
Science: Examining reality
Philosophy: Examining thought.
Spirituality: Examining the examiner


Science: Examining intersubjectivity
Philosophy: Examining beliefs
Spirituality: Examining the unexaminable
Yohan October 06, 2021 at 20:12 #604520
Reply to Tom Storm Maybe intersubjective reality? Pretty nifty
Tom Storm October 06, 2021 at 20:15 #604522
Reply to Yohan Indeed - I think I could provide different answers ever few days. Lots of things fit.

I've been touched by phenomenology recently and am curious about it.
Manuel October 06, 2021 at 22:54 #604594
Reply to Srap Tasmaner

:up:

Absolutely.

In a trivial sense, philosophy is the mother of the sciences. Which is true, out of philosophy came physics, biology, chemistry and everything else. Needless to say Leibniz knew physics quite well for his day, Schopenhauer wasn't horrible in biology and Priestley, who discovered oxygen, contributed a lot to metaphysics, though his work is criminally neglected.

Those are just the names that I came up with now, I'm sure you can think of many other examples. So in a traceable sense, philosophy is the most successful of all fields of enquiry.

But as "science" got its name from Whewell and was developed by others, philosophy at around the mid-18th century pretty much got left with the very hard questions.

It's a bit of a contingency that the name "philosophy" is now associated with "unanswerable questions", as these questions were very much what interested many of the classical scientists.

But to be fair, philosophers still contribute to linguistics, neuroscience and psychology. So there's still overlap.
180 Proof October 06, 2021 at 22:57 #604598
Reply to Tom Storm Maybe ...
Philosophy: examining (conceptual) assumptions and proposing (speculative) interpretations of reality-in-the-most-general-sense.

Science: researching, observing and explaining (experimental theories of) transformations of aspects of nature.

Art: exploring abstract / narrative forms (images) and proficiently executing representative examples of heightened experiences (symbols).

Religion: communally reenacting defenses of the indefensible (rituals) customarily rationalized by believing the unbelievable (myths).


NB: "Spirituality", I think, falls liminally between religion and art (defined above) as a subjective, or wholly solitary, encounter with – (oceanic?) presence of – an ineffable mystery (Buber, Laozi) or feeling of safety (Witty). "The spirit" – Numinous? Dao? Thou? Brahman? Sunyata / Void (of "swirling atoms")? Natura naturans? Music ("expression of the will")? I don't know; only the last actually moves me to ecstasy (ek-stasis), though usually when I least expect it. Anyway, I exclude "spirituality" from my others sketches, however, because it is, IMO, a passive "experience" (most often, in most cases, one is struck by "the spirit") whereas philosophy, science, art & religion are only ever active endeavors, or practices.
Tom Storm October 06, 2021 at 23:28 #604608
Reply to 180 Proof Nice work. There's something august and poetic about your definitions of philosophy and science and, perhaps, if you don't mind me saying, a retributive tone when you get to religion.

Do you have a way of accounting for the numinous?

Quoting 180 Proof
Anyway, I exclude "spirituality" from my others sketches, however, because it is, IMO, a passive "experience" (most of often, in most cases, one is struck by "spirit") whereas philosophy, science, art & religion are only ever active endeavors, or practices.


I've not thought of it this way before but I find this useful. I've often viewed spirituality as being a more needful experience. I can't think of a better word.
Valentinus October 06, 2021 at 23:58 #604622
Quoting Bret Bernhoft
How does one intentionally participate in philosophical dialogue?


When you are not satisfied by previous statements and ask that the conversation happen on your terms.
That presumes some familiarity with the matter as commonly discussed but a dissatisfaction at the same time.

It is a very old thing.

Tom Storm October 07, 2021 at 00:00 #604625
Quoting Valentinus
... ask that the conversation happen on your terms.


Is it always 'your terms'?
Valentinus October 07, 2021 at 00:15 #604631
Quoting Tom Storm
Is it always 'your terms'?


Maybe not. But how will you tell the difference? We only have our experience of ourselves to go on.

So the idea of personal verification is spoken more from a position of poverty than some kind of vision of triumph.
Tom Storm October 07, 2021 at 00:25 #604633
Reply to Valentinus I was thinking more about renegotiating a shared conversation that may not just be 'your terms' but a greater focus on 'our terms'. If that makes sense. But yes, of course it is you asking for an 'enhanced' approach.
NOS4A2 October 07, 2021 at 01:11 #604646
Reply to Bret Bernhoft

What is philosophy?


At its worst philosophy is the overestimation of the power of language, manifesting in form of rhetoric concerned with creating certainty in symbols and doubt in the world. At its best it tries to settle matters of justice and conduct.
Valentinus October 07, 2021 at 01:39 #604660
Reply to Tom Storm
I did not mean to say that living with "ones own terms" excluded what is shared amongst us.
As the only one you know who can observe what you know, the privacy is not an argument for or against any way to explain the world.
Heiko October 07, 2021 at 16:40 #604866
Quoting Bret Bernhoft
What is philosophy?


This is a really good question. As philosophy has so many shades, this list surely is to be continued:

- The preoccupation with the world without knowing what one is talking about
- The expression of such abysmal boredom that she has to invent her own subject
- The only sience not good for /anything/
- The exploration of possibilities that get never relevant
- The honest search for the nature of absolutely nothing

Tom Storm October 07, 2021 at 20:13 #604933
Recently came across this definition by Merleau-Ponty

‘Philosophy is not a particular body of knowledge; it is the vigilance which does not let us forget the source of all knowledge’.
Bret Bernhoft October 08, 2021 at 00:41 #604987
Reply to Tom Storm

That sounds pretty reasonable to me, in terms of defining what philosophy is; it's perennial. As that's at least one quintessential word to use if investigating the "source of all knowledge". This might then be similar to the pursuits of both Ancient and Modern Mystery Traditions.
Tom Storm October 08, 2021 at 01:15 #604991
Reply to Bret Bernhoft Yes. The other interpretation for 'source of all knowledge' is the recognition that human knowledge is fallible, tentative and piecemeal - it's sources a mix of subjective, experiential and observational inputs. Remembering or ascertaining just how you think you know something is the work, it seems to me.
Manuel October 08, 2021 at 01:36 #604992
Reply to 180 Proof

:up:

That's a pretty good sketch.
180 Proof October 08, 2021 at 01:57 #604999
Reply to Manuel Thanks.
jgill October 08, 2021 at 03:41 #605025
Scientific speculation is when two physicists discuss entanglement. This becomes philosophy when
one of them mentions Kant.
Manuel October 08, 2021 at 04:44 #605044
Reply to jgill

Well, that's true. On the other hand, it is a legitimate question to ask, does physics touch the noumena? In other words, does physics tell us about the world "in itself"? Perhaps. Our knowledge of physics has advanced drastically since Kant.

But Russell, who knew physics and mathematics very well, stated that physics tells us about the structural properties of the world, leaving the intrinsic nature of atoms (and quarks, fields, etc.) unknown.

But, point taken.
180 Proof October 09, 2021 at 04:27 #605279
Slainte! :yum:
A philosopher is someone who talks against talking nonsense and often to such an extreme – sometimes saying can only shown, not said – that s/he talks even more nonsense.

Who said that?
god must be atheist October 10, 2021 at 02:44 #605463
In my view, and I am the first to admit that this is not the only way to look at what philosophy is, is that philosophy is pre-science.

Philosophy is theory; drawing up theories based on evidence, but with less proof than what science needs to verify an event as science-discovered.

The theory of relativity is a perfect example. Einstein started with an assumption that the speed of light is the maximum attainable speed in the world. He then manipulated theoretical knowledge to describe the nature of matter as it approaches the speed of light. He was purely theorizing, and his theory involved math. He pointed at what could show that his theory is true, but he did not find this evidence. Other people found physical evidence that could neatly be explained by the Relativity theory. That's when his theory became science, scientific knowledge.

Another example would be the allegory of images on cave walls by Plato/Socrates in the Republic. The images and the conclusions drawn from the phenomena lead Socrates create the ideas of Forms and Ideals, things that are perfect, never change, last forever, and EXIST. This has not been shown to be a scientific fact, but Socrates pointed at the proof: we simply must discover the existing Forms.

The Relativity theory is science, but it started as philosophy. The theory of Ideals and Forms are philosophy, waiting to become science.

-------------------------

Philosophy deals mainly or only in subjects that can not be scientifically decided. One branch is tautologies: math, logic. The other branch applies to phenomena in our physical world, and it is what pre-science is. Theories that may be true, but no additional evidence exists to make them true aside from the original assumptions or premises the theory is based on. For instance, the existence of a creator, omniscient god. The theory is infallible; God created the world, and he knows all that happens there. That's the entire theory of a creator god. It is true, inasmuch it can't be proven wrong. But no additional evidence exists that was discovered after the theory had been created, such as "you will see Jesus return and judge all souls, living and dead." God belief is a very neat and compact theory, it is believable, but it is faith-based because it can't be shown yet that it is scientific.

-------------------------

Other unsolvable questions exist in philosophy: the classic ones deal with beauty, morals, and other elusive things, that can't be decided by logic or by evidence one way or another. What is beautiful to one person may be not to another; and neither is wrong or right, yet both will agree that beauty exist. So then what is beauty? The debate rages on.

-------------------------

One unsolvable question was "what is ethics, what makes an action moral or immoral or amoral." This question has been solved, in a philosophical manner, which unifies the ethics field and creates a useful tool to explain it; however, it is still not science, hard evidence has not been found to show it is true, outside the realm of thoughts, observations and experiments that have helped create the ethics-solving theory.

This theory may or may not be true, but I haven't read yet a refuting theory against which it can't be defended using arguments. In other words, no valid criticism exists in response to it.

The text of the theory can be found in two links on this website. One link is a long-hand explanation, with some repetition and some explanations that are too detailed to the trained philosophers' eyes; the other link points at a skeletonized description of ethics, in a very short but idea-dense text.

The long text can be found here:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/10744/ethics-explained-to-smooth-out-all-wrinkles-in-current-debates-neo-darwinist-approach

The short, idea-rich text which is void of detailed explanation and of examples, can be found here:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/10903/shortened-version-of-theory-of-morality-some-objected-to-the-conversational-style-of-my-paper
180 Proof October 10, 2021 at 03:06 #605467
Quoting Tom Storm
I've often viewed spirituality as being a more needful experience.

I agree; being so "needful", in fact, I think "the spirit" motivates – the muses move – people to philosophize, empirically research and conjecture, create and perform works of art, or worship mysteries (with/without magic aka "sacrifice (i.e. make sacred) in the name of ...") This "needful experience" corresponds to Kierkegaard's angst (dread) in my mind; or maybe Jaspers' transcendence (encompassing), or Zapffe's absurd (tragically overdeveloped brain).
I like sushi October 10, 2021 at 07:21 #605494
In short I would define philosophy as the investigation of human thought, reason, interaction, understanding and experience.

'Investigation' here could mean a variety of things including inner thought, logical analysis and/or scholarly/historical work on philosophers/philosophies.

What makes something 'philosophical' depends upon the context the term is used in. Colloquially we use this to mean something like an ethic or moral code, or a practical way of dealing with day-to-day problems (as in 'My philosophy of life is ...').

In other respects I think it is better to view something philosophical as being more about the 'what' question whereas something scientific would look more at the 'how' question. This is not to say these don't sometimes overlap and feed off of each other.
Janus October 11, 2021 at 04:30 #605785
Quoting Manuel
But Russell, who knew physics and mathematics very well, stated that physics tells us about the structural properties of the world, leaving the intrinsic nature of atoms (and quarks, fields, etc.) unknown.


Philosophy is the battle against "intrinsic natures", that are the hypostatized progeny of the scientific and commonsense inquiry into extrinsic natures. Philosophy, is, in other words both descriptive and corrective.

Apart from that it's thinking how best to live, and examining one's life to see just where the failures lie.

Apart from that it's just finkin; for finkin's sake, otherwise known as conceptual art, or mental masturbation.

Everything to some people, nothing to others and somewhere in between to the wise.

I could go on: but should I ?
Manuel October 11, 2021 at 04:54 #605789
Reply to Janus

Battle against? You can say that, sure. Some like to distinguish between intrinsic nature and extrinsic nature, though I'm skeptical that we ever get to intrinsic natures. Perhaps we graze the surface of these things, or the structural properties of phenomena.

Yes, those questions of what if a good life and what should I do and all that is part of the tradition going back thousands of years. These questions don't have easy answers, or we wouldn't be asking them still.

It's also mental masturbation, which I don't object to, nor do I think you do either.

I can understand it being everything to some, meaningless verbal quibbles to others. But I don't know about the wise.

As far as I'm concerned, go on as long as you wish. I don't see any problems with it. Though I'm unclear at what you're getting at.
TheMadFool October 11, 2021 at 05:11 #605791
Philosophy is the systematic analysis - rationality (mainstay), examination of structure - of questions, answers to those questions and, on the whole, all and sundry claims. Philosophy - viewed as such a methodology - is not without criticism (irrationalism).
Janus October 11, 2021 at 06:34 #605804
Quoting Manuel
Battle against?


'Struggle against' if that's more to your liking.

Quoting Manuel
Perhaps we graze the surface of these things, or the structural properties of phenomena.


Interesting question: are the structural properties of things intrinsic or extrinsic? To me 'intrinsic' implies 'changeless'.

Quoting Manuel
It's also mental masturbation, which I don't object to, nor do I think you do either.


Right, all forms of masturbation have their place, and are not to be scoffed at.

Quoting Manuel
I can understand it being everything to some, meaningless verbal quibbles to others. But I don't know about the wise.


Nothing fancy, I was just suggesting that something like a middle path is more balanced.

Quoting Manuel
Though I'm unclear at what you're getting at.


Just throwing up some random ideas in the vomitorium.

180 Proof October 11, 2021 at 06:47 #605809
Quoting Janus
Just throwing up some random ideas in the vomitorium.

:vomit: ergo sum ...
Janus October 11, 2021 at 06:51 #605810
Reply to 180 Proof :rofl: Absolutely sum-ptuous! :yum: