Beautiful and know it?
When a guy tells a woman she's beautiful and she either says that she knows or gives an unmoved expression that indicates that the sentiment isn't worth much is this just straight up hubris? I understand beauty can be measured to some degree scientifically, but is there ever any purpose to being so confident in a quality that in and of itself probably has no substance? I find it annoying when women seem to think so highly of themselves when in truth they don't look that great in my opinion. I find overconfidence keeps people from communicating and really getting to know one another. Is there a purpose for thinking so positively and absolutely about ones appearance?
Comments (34)
This is not my experience. Your observations read like you have some resentment towards women.
My first wife was a model and attractive. You never, ever commented on her beauty. She'd been hit on by sleazy men since she was 14 years-old and preferred not to engage about her appearance at all. Worked fine with me. My experience is that attractive people tend to attract the wrong kinds of attention from the wrong people and are often lonely.
Hang - you’re saying yourself that beauty as a quality probably has no substance, and yet you’re annoyed that telling a woman she has this insubstantial quality doesn’t render her grateful to you for saying so?
I’ve been told ‘you’re beautiful’ by guys before, and I’ll be honest: the sentiment really isn’t worth much on its own. All women these days have to understand that they are beautiful in their own way. This is how we counteract everyone who tries to make us believe that our worth is only in our appearance. I know I’m not exceptionally beautiful - it’s a relative term. If I look around and see that almost everyone’s hooked up except me and this guy who’s just wandered over, then he’s probably not saying that he finds me exceptionally beautiful - but that I’m a beautiful alternative to going home alone. I’m beautiful enough for the situation.
If a woman is unimpressed by your superficial flattery, I’d suggest you try harder to understand who she really is.
That.
Where you go from there is up to you. The ick factor many here have identified is in your internal response, where you have chosen to go hostile, getting annoyed at her for being rude, stuck up, and uncaring for your feelings. This speaks to your caring what she thinks about you, and so your response is understandable. It's protective of a bruised ego, convincing yourself she wasn't worth your time anyway.
If you're going to emotionally invest in the outcome of every romantic attempt, you're going to be a bitter young man. Just move on. Who cares what she thinks? You should have already served up a dozen or so more compliments by now, but instead you're here, doing a post-mortem on something she has no idea was of any importance.
And do empathize some for her as well. She was just standing there, minding her own business, then received an unsolicited comment, and now she is being expected to respond in a certain way, and, if she doesn't, she will be thought less of. It's why girls don't want to go to bars alone, for fear of swarming guys and fragile egos offering attacks when they are shot down.
It doesn't threaten me. I just think people shouldn't blind themselves with things that are empty and aren't accomplishments.
I don't require gratefulness for a compliment. My point is some people think their beauty is factual in all circumstances. And as far as complimenting someone on their personality that would be my first approach if I knew them well enough at that point.
Because the guy had chosen the 'wrong' person to give compliments to. He should save it for someone deserving of that compliment. When he tells me I'm beautiful, I could almost cry. That's how strong it is to me. Because I know he's saying much more than the physical thing he's seeing -- he is saying something inside him that's also beautiful. And he's sharing it with me. That's vulnerability I wouldn't trade for the world. (Well, not the world, lol, but you get my point).
Guys, don't waste your time on someone who can't give you the same quality feeling. Look beyond the physical thing. Save your precious compliments for another time, when the right one comes along.
In general I can understand why you mentioned women in particular, but you certainly aimed the question in a more general sense so I responded to that.
Quoting TiredThinker
I find this annoying in either sex. Some people can pull it off though usually with comedic insincerity :) Often 'overconfidence' in this sense is not sincere at all - more fun poking than arrogance.
I have found a lot of people who are considered by people to be 'physically attractive' often don't know it because people tend to focus on their self-perceived 'negative' features.
In bold ... other than obvious items, like our tendencies to make assumptions at face value, it is just part of emotional maturity. Some peopel develop faster than others and some people probably have a lesser 'capacity' for suich development.
Does such a thing prevetn people from getting to knwo one another? I don't really think so. If people are highly judgemental then they tend to paint a picture of someone fairly quickly and fairly inaccurately. That can be a big issue because the 'first impression' does make quite a difference and is hard to overcome if one is 'emotionally underdeveloped' or numerous other things to boot.
Confidence is probably one of the most attractive attributes individaual humans possess. Like anything too much is too much. Returning to 'judgement' there is also something to be said of people throwing out their 'opinions' of someone ... why? To flatter/seduce? This can make us uneasy too. If someone stopped me in the street and said they liked my dress sense or eyes, or whatever, I would assume they are trying to sell me something. As is often the case the context is paramount.
The exceptions to generalised rules are usually more interesting than not :)
I take it - beauty recognizing itself - as part of the Socratic principle of temet nosce. It's odd that people say things like, "you have the brains, use it" but never in my life (never say never) have I heard someone say, "you're beautiful, use it." Is this part of some mind game we're totally in the dark about? I dunno. Sounds interesting. It appears that, like some stroke patients, we're blind to, ignoring, an aspect (the physical plane) of our being. Amazing!
:up:
:ok:
@TiredThinker has deep trouble with women. We should be cautious...
Yet you clearly expect something in return for this compliment, which you’re not getting. You’re also presuming that her response of ‘I know’ is used in all circumstances. She may have perceived this guy and his compliment coming from a mile away, based on his body language long before he opened his mouth. That’s not his fault, but she’s either not interested - in which case her response is rapidly effective - or she expected more from his opening line than an evaluation, as if she’s there waiting for his appraisal. Perhaps what she means is ‘...and...?’
How about him giving some indication that he’s not just looking for surface value? That he perceives her as a human being with her own mind? You don’t have to know someone very well at all to make that kind of assumption.
Quoting Accounting
Cautious of what?
People also say a person is beautiful inside and out when both apply but never say they are beautiful on the inside (in a public manner anyway) when only one applies.
Brains (omniscience), Brawn (omnipotent), and Bonum (omnibenevolent) = God, the perfect man
Surely then,
Brains (omniscience), Beauty (omniaesthetic), and Bonum (omnibenevolent) = Goddess, the perfect woman
Muscular Christianity (brawn)
Christian manliness (brains + bonum)
It would probably depend on the particular society and culture we are talking about.
In the Western world (some) women do get told things like “you could be a model” or “you could be a movie star”, or even encouraged to become one on account of their good looks.
I think physical attractiveness is a personal asset like any other one, and can perfectly well be used to advance one’s career, to find a partner, or whatever. After all, humans learn how to manipulate others in many ways from an early age and looks, including in terms of what we wear, are used to make a certain impression on others or elicit a certain response from them.
Hence, the not unheard-of question, "Do I look good in this"? :smile:
I think this can be annoying both in men and women.
But is your complaint about women who think they look great without actually looking great, or about women who don't care about you telling them that they look great?
Not a rule of life, in my opinion. Brains you can certainly use or not use. Beauty is something you can take advantage of, but there can be a discrepancy or uncertainty between who has the beauty and who has the advantage that simply isn’t the case with brains. And there are plenty of situations where someone says things like, “If you’ve got it...” which implies that one use beauty to their own advantage.
An intelligent person with beauty understands when to ‘use it’ and when not to, and will not be dictated to otherwise. There are many situations where what appears to be ‘using your beauty’ actually enables a transfer of power to someone else that may prove difficult to retrieve.
Quoting TiredThinker
Because we can simply say they are ‘a beautiful person’, which acknowledges them as not just a facade.
There are two types of women, and, I assume, men 1) beautiful and 2) beautiful if I loved them.
I really like the way people look, especially when they make an effort, especially clothing and hair. I often comment to both men and women, although women wear interesting and attractive clothing and hair much more often than men. If I'm going to say something to a woman I don't know, I sometimes say "I hope you don't mind if I say this..." Then I say something like "I really like your dress," or "Your hair looks great," or my favorite "I really like the color of your hair." I love hair color, the wilder the better. I saw a woman with short hair dyed bright yellow. I said "I love your hair, is that it's natural color?"
Almost all women I've talked to have reacted well to this kind of approach. For many, most, I can see they appreciate what I've said. I don't remember ever getting a negative reaction. I always make it clear by the way I approach that there is no ulterior motive for my comments.
I'm sure it helps that I'm 69 years old.
This post in general is about any confidence that gets into the realm of absolute. But in terms of a handful of women that think their beauty is certain I am annoyed when they give a gesture to indicate that this was something they already knew and are neither complimented or disgusted by the words. It seems to show a lack of empathy.
They don't owe you a show of empathy.
Imagine being told something about yourself that is positive. Say, hey you're pretty tall. It's kinda cool to hear the first or even dozen times around. After a while it becomes.. redundant. Then, annoying. Almost as if it's some negative attribute. This word or quality that one cannot escape. I'm a gardener. No, you're a tall gardener. I'm a writer. No, you're a tall writer. It becomes mentally crippling. Just think about it.
Sounds more like an ironic snub in reply to an uninvited/unwelcome compliment.
A lot depends on how, where and when. When you are saying it to a loved one or to someone in an intimate moment, it different from when you say it to a woman you just talked to in a bar. When you say 'you are beautiful' you are entering some kind of game, like a dance with words. 'you are beautiful' means something else than a factual claim about someone facial or bodily features.
To give an example, I work with a lot of very bright women, though I hardly have the urge to come up to one and say "hey you are bright". When I do so it is only to a friend, or submissive in a sign of admiration. If it was not and I would just say it after a casual encounter it would be arrogant and presumptuous as if I am the judge of brightness. Would it be hubris if she rolled her eyes? I think not. So it is with "you are beautiful".
If I say it to some girl I meet, I actually say "hey, I see something in you, want to play along". My main move though is made on the playing field of physical attraction and perhaps she does not want to play along. Maybe she thinks I am not an aequate dance partner, by choosing that specific genre of dance. Or maybe she just isn't into me. Why would that be hubris? It has nothing to do with her feelings about herself, but with her feelings about the one saying it. If she reacts like that she rejects me, but she has that right no? There is nothing over confident in that no matter how rejected I might feel.