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Meteorites, Cosmic Dust, and Mass of Earth

Wayfarer March 12, 2017 at 05:50 17250 views 48 comments
There's a great story in the NY Times about a Norwegian jazz musician, who also happens to collect interstellar particles that have fallen to earth.

After decades of failures and misunderstandings, scientists have solved a cosmic riddle — what happens to the tons of dust particles that hit the Earth every day but seldom if ever get discovered in the places that humans know best, like buildings and parking lots, sidewalks and park benches.

The answer? Nothing. Look harder. The tiny flecks are everywhere.


So, we're constantly being bombarded with 'micrometeorites'. Other material comes in via large meteors, like the one at Chelyabinsk in Feb 2013 (fortunately, not too many of them.) But according to the article in the NY Times, there is a constant rain of dust falling out of space. The article mentions 4,000 tons annually.

Now here's a question for the more scientifically literate among us. As gravity is proportional to mass, would this accretion of materials add up to enough additional mass to actually increase the force of gravity on earth? Consider that the heyday of dinosaurs was from around 230 - 200 mya. Since then, if there has been 4,000 tons of material falling every year, that amounts to 4000 x 200 million - which I'm sure is a pretty large amount of stuff - 800,000,000,000 tons, or 725,747,792,000,000 kg if my calculation is correct. Dr Google tells me the mass of the earth is 5.972 × 10^24 kg. So here my general knowledge of maths fails. Would an increase of that magnitude, have a measurable effect on the overall gravity of the earth?

(I ask this because it is well-known that some dinosaurs were huge by today's standards, so if the force of gravity were slightly less, that might go some way to explaining the difference.)

Comments (48)

Wosret March 12, 2017 at 06:03 #60357
Actually the opposite is true. Due to the natural loss of energy of the core, and the release of gases, the earth loses more than it gains, and it getting smaller.
TimeLine March 12, 2017 at 06:23 #60358
This is hilarious.
Wayfarer March 12, 2017 at 06:30 #60359
Reply to Wosret any references for that? prepared to accept it but never heard it before.

Quoting TimeLine
This is hilarious.


Why?
TimeLine March 12, 2017 at 06:44 #60363
Reply to Wayfarer

Because it is simple Newtonian physics.

What exactly is the reasoning behind your assumption that there would be any measurable effect on the overall gravity of the earth? Are you afraid that if earth' mass increased, the earth' orbit will decay or that it may even collapse out of orbit?

Poor shiny little sun of ours, so underestimated.
Wayfarer March 12, 2017 at 06:48 #60364
Reply to TimeLine No, it's a serious question. Gravity is a function of mass, right? So a planet twice as massive as earth would have much greater gravity (I think twice as much but I don't know the physics).

I saw the Mars film with Matt Damon recently, and a blooper that was pointed out that Mars' gravity is about 35% (I think it was) of Earth's - therefore the monumental dust storm that triggered the evacuation would have been nearly so powerful in reality, because the atmosphere is much thinner due to that factor.

So I think there's nothing wrong with the principle, but the numbers aren't going to work out. From what I can ascertain, the Earth's mass is 5,972,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg, and the total mass of interstellar stuff that would fall over 200m years @4000 tons per year, would be 725,747,792,000,000 kg. I haven't figured out how to calculate the percentage that the second figure is of the first, but at a glance I think it will be negligible.

Quoting TimeLine
Are you afraid that if earth' mass increased, the earth' orbit will decay or would that it may even collapse out of orbit?


No, as I said, I wondered if it might account for the fact that some terrestrial dinosaurs are much bigger - enormously bigger - than current terrestrial animals. A change in the Earth's gravitational field *might* account for that.

PS// I now think the total sum of meteorite accretion is around 8 billionths of the total mass, in which case it is neglible.
TimeLine March 12, 2017 at 07:01 #60366
Reply to Wayfarer Ok, but what is the concern here, you haven't answered that? There is a lot of cosmic dust hitting the earth - tonnes of it actually if you check out CODITA - and to be sure the impact can certainly cause environmental phenomena and damage just as coronal rays during polar interaction influence auroras, but most of the space junk disintegrates as it collides with air and evaporates. It effects the stratosphere but not mass and in turn gravity.
Wosret March 12, 2017 at 07:09 #60369
I don't know a whole lot about physics, might not be true.

http://gizmodo.com/5882517/did-you-know-that-earth-is-getting-lighter-every-day
Wayfarer March 12, 2017 at 07:28 #60370
Reply to Wosret Well notice the first paragraph:

Earth is getting 50,000 tonnes lighter every year, even while 40,000 tonnes of space dust fall on our planet's surface during the same period. So, why are we losing so much weight? You will be surprised.


So their estimate is 10x the figure quoted in the article I referenced.

The upshot is, none of the figures are enough to affect gravity - but in principle, it would, if the amounts involved were of a much higher order of magnitude.

Quoting TimeLine
Ok, but what is the concern here, you haven't answered that?


I was just interested. I figured, hey, maybe this is a factor that hasn't been considered. But I've already answered my own question - the amounts involved are negigible, it would seem, compared to the overall mass of earth. But then, the Earth itself is an accretion of such debris, so it might still be an open question.

Also another idea is that organic material might also turn up on comets and in interstellar dust, which actually alters, or contributes to, Earth's gene pool. This was the idea behind a book by astronomer Fred Hoyle, The Intelligent Universe. That is one example of the delightfully-named theory of 'panspermia'. (Think about the etymology of that word for a moment.)

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SophistiCat March 12, 2017 at 07:29 #60371
If I recall correctly, Carl Sagan contributed to some research on meteoritic dust accretion. He is mostly remembered for being a great science popularizer and a sort of generalist visionary, but he actually did some good down-to-earth (as it were) science as well.
Wayfarer March 12, 2017 at 07:31 #60372
Reply to SophistiCat I used to like his TV show, although it wasn't broadcast regularly here in Oz. I also liked his book, Dragons of Eden, although he did tend towards scientism at times.
Wosret March 12, 2017 at 07:41 #60376
Quoting Wayfarer
So their estimate is 10x the figure quoted in the article I referenced.


A quick google search suggests that it is 40,000 and not 4,000.
TimeLine March 12, 2017 at 08:30 #60379
Quoting Wayfarer
Also another idea is that organic material might also turn up on comets and in interstellar dust, which actually alters, or contributes to, Earth's gene pool.

Yeah, there are quite a lot of theories on the astrobiological origins of life, I mean, what was earth before our sun captured it? But, if you want to think of particularly mass-distribution effects, a more interesting subject would be earths' "wobble" - whether precession as it rotates around the axis or the violence of natural causes - that causes the earth to shake, including droughts, earthquakes and heavy rainfall. So the distribution of mass, basically, is affecting climate change particularly with polar melting, which is pulling the axis. Pretty spooky.
Wayfarer March 12, 2017 at 09:07 #60381
Reply to Wosret I had heard that previously although I still don't think it would support the 'mass' hypothesis. I might float it over at Pysics forum (although I would leave out the dinosaurs).

Reply to TimeLine one candidate critter for an extra-terrestrial origin is the tardigrade (also known somewhat charmingly as the 'moss piglet'). It can survive in deep space and is quite unlike any other phyla (is that the word? Anyway if Scott Pruitt has his way they'll probably be the only things left alive in 100 years.)
BC July 14, 2017 at 11:34 #86559
Quoting TimeLine
what was earth before our sun captured it?


The sun didn't "capture" earth, earth and the sun, plus all the other planets, moons, asteroids, comets, and various leftovers, all arose out of a disk of dust that happened to accumulate in this area of the Milky Whey and eventually went thermonuclear.

Quoting Wayfarer
I ask this because it is well-known that some dinosaurs were huge by today's standards, so if the force of gravity were slightly less, that might go some way to explaining the difference


What about creatures from the Jurassic and Cretaceous that were not spectacularly large?
BC July 14, 2017 at 11:59 #86562
Quoting Wayfarer
It can survive in deep space


According to the all-knowing wikipedia tardigrades can survive vacuum, radiation, high pressure, high temperatures, etc. for a while -- not indefinitely. Eventually radiation, heat, pressure, vacuum, and so forth causes serious damage. Still, they are very remarkable little creatures.

TimeLine July 14, 2017 at 12:03 #86565
Quoting Bitter Crank
The sun didn't "capture" earth, earth and the sun, plus all the other planets, moons, asteroids, comets, and various leftovers, all arose out of a disk of dust that happened to accumulate in this area of the Milky Whey and eventually went thermonuclear.


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Wayfarer July 14, 2017 at 12:16 #86570
Reply to Bitter Crank aha, so even tardigrades may not survive Scott Pruitt... :-(
Michael Ossipoff August 18, 2017 at 20:58 #98328
Reply to Wayfarer

From the figures that you gave, the micrometeorites have, during the period you specify, increased the Earth's mass by about a tenth of a billionth of what it was at the start of that period.

That would increase gravity at the Earth's surface by about the same fraction.

Well, actually a little less, if you count the fact that we're standing just a little bit higher, on top of that newly-arrived material.

For a given constant uniform density of material, a planet's surface-gravity is proportional to the planet's mass, divided by the square of its radius.

For some given constant uniform density, that would make a planet's surface gravity proportional to its diameter, or to the cube-root of its mass.

Looking at it that way, then you could say that the Earth's gravity would have increased by only 1/30 of a billionth of its value at the beginning of that period.

Michael Ossipoff
Michael Ossipoff August 18, 2017 at 21:44 #98358
Quoting Bitter Crank
The sun didn't "capture" earth, earth and the sun, plus all the other planets, moons, asteroids, comets, and various leftovers, all arose out of a disk of dust that happened to accumulate in this area of the Milky Whey and eventually went thermonuclear.


As the material contracted gravitationally, it would have tended to form a roughly spherical shape, except that, as the rotating material contracted, conservation of angular-momentum would have caused a disk of material to be spun-out along the equator of the forming Sun. That's the ecliptic disk from which the planets were formed.

Michael Ossipoff

Wayfarer August 18, 2017 at 21:48 #98364
Quoting Michael Ossipoff
From the figures that you gave, the micrometeorites have, during the period you specify, increased the Earth's mass by about a tenth of a billionth of what it was at the start of that period.


I did acknowledge that earlier in the thread. It remains mysterious, however, why the mega-fauna of that age was so much bigger than anything that exists today. Some of the brachiopods weighed as much as today's whales. I was wondering if there is any global change that might explain this disparity.
Michael Ossipoff August 18, 2017 at 22:03 #98373
Reply to TimeLine

Precession of the equinoxes, a top-like wobble caused mostly by the gravitational pull of the Sun and Moon on the Earth's equatorial-bulge, affects our climate as follows:

Because the Earth's orbit isn't perfectly circular, but rather a bit elliptical, it has a minimum-distance from the Sun (Perihelion) and, opposite it, a maximum-distance (Aphelion).

As the Earth precesses, the equinoxes move around the ecliptic (plane of the Earth's orbit).

The equinoxes are the points on our orbit where our orbital plane (the ecliptic) crosses the plane of the Earth's equator. At those places on our orbit, day and night are of equal length.

Precession moves those points around the ecliptic. Of course then the solstice-points of our orbit (where the Sun reaches its maximum distance north or south of the celestial equator) also move around the ecliptic in the same way.

So then, there's a time when the summer solstice occurs right at the perihelion (close approach) of our orbit.That will be a particularly hot summer. Right now, our summer solstice occurs near the aphelion (greatest distance from the Sun). That means that our summer is particularly cool.

Michael Ossipoff





Metaphysician Undercover August 18, 2017 at 22:07 #98378
Quoting TimeLine
But, if you want to think of particularly mass-distribution effects, a more interesting subject would be earths' "wobble" - whether precession as it rotates around the axis or the violence of natural causes - that causes the earth to shake, including droughts, earthquakes and heavy rainfall. So the distribution of mass, basically, is affecting climate change particularly with polar melting, which is pulling the axis. Pretty spooky.


Yes, there are some very interesting facts concerning the earth. The equator is not stable, to begin with. The magnetic poles do not line up with the true poles, and are moving. And, the north/south axis flips from time to time, to mention a few, other than the wobble.
Michael Ossipoff August 18, 2017 at 22:28 #98383
Reply to Wayfarer

Likely, after the KT impact greatly reduced the food-supply and the temperature, those things tended to kill-off reptiles, because of their greater temperature-sensiivity (or near-reptiles, if that's what the dinosaurs were), and big animals that needed abundant food.

Eventually, of course, some time after mammals took over, some of them, too, became big. The Baluchitherium ("Beast of Baluchistan) was much bigger than any modern land animal.

Maybe the dinosaurs were so big because food was so abundant before the impact. Maybe, when the KT dust-cloud settled, climate was again providing an abundant food-supply, allowing those large mammals.

Maybe later, climate became less favorable, and hunting by humans made large animals more vulnerable. But I think animals the size of Baluchitherium were already gone before humans arrived on the scene, and the Mammoth and Mastedon were the biggest then. ...and were evidently hunted to extinction by humans.

So, my first guess would be that, for some reason, modern climate doesn't provide a food supply sufficient for animals as large as the Baluchitherium, and already didn't when humans appeared.

But I'm just guessing.

Michael Ossipoff

Michael Ossipoff August 18, 2017 at 22:33 #98386
Regarding the climate-effect of precession, I should add that it's a combination of two things actually:

Precession, and also the rotation of the absides (perihelion and aphelion), caused by gravitational perturbations by the other planets--but mostly by Jupiter. Together those two things result in an effect that has a period of about 20,000 years.

Another cyclical change caused by planetary perturbation is changes in the Earth's orbital eccentricity.

Someone showed that these effects coincide well with ice-ages.

Of course with the arrival of the Anthropocene Epoch, we're the new main influence on climate.

Michael Ossipoff


Wayfarer August 18, 2017 at 22:51 #98389
Quoting Michael Ossipoff
Maybe the dinosaurs were so big because food was so abundant before the impact.


It isn't so much a question of nutrition, as how the skeletal and muscular dynamics of creatures that large could hold together. Like, move too quickly and suffer a major muscle malfunction. There was talk at some stage that many of the long-necked dinosaurs spent most of their lives partially submerged so as to buoy them up. But those types of dinosaurs were again orders of magnitude larger than ancient mammals. The notion that gravity was different 250 million years ago is at least consistent with that, granted that there is no way to account for such a difference, and it is never really considered as an hypothesis.
Michael Ossipoff August 18, 2017 at 23:45 #98397
Quoting Wayfarer
It isn't so much a question of nutrition, as how the skeletal and muscular dynamics of creatures that large could hold up. There was talk at some stage that many of the long-necked dinosaurs spent most of their lives partially submerged so as to buoy them up. But those types of dinosaurs were again orders of magnitude larger than ancient mammals.


Sure, larger animals are less able to support their weight on land. Maybe Brontosaurus ("Apatosaurus"), Diplodocus and Brachiosaurus spent most of their time in deep swamp-water, where bouyancy would help support their weight, and where they could be safe from land-predators.

Maybe a reduction in the amount of swampland prevented large mammals from having that opportunity.

Michael Ossipoff
.

.
Michael Ossipoff August 19, 2017 at 00:02 #98402
we watch "Jurassic" Dino-movies every week.

Jurassic-III is the best, because it's funny.

Jurassic II is next best, because of the priceless T-Rex on Main-Street. ...and the introduction of the 1.5 foot tall bipedal predator dinosaurs.

I didn't care for #4, but I liked its Pterodactyls.

Jurassic-1 suffered too much from Malcom's personality.

By the way, in #3, when the plane fell from the tree, if the fall took 3 seconds, then the 65 mph impact with the ground would be difficult to survive.

And did that little para-sail speedboat come all the way from Costa Rica, at least a 20 or 30 hour round-trip, across open ocean?

In #2, the ship-captain promised that if the team on the island radioed them, they'd be there in 2 hours. Why didn't they respond when called?

And of course the movies' main menacing dinosaurs, Tyrannosaurus Rex and Velociraptor were Cretaceous, not Jurassic.

Michael Ossipoff

BC August 19, 2017 at 01:02 #98413
Quoting Wayfarer
The notion that gravity was different 250 million years ago is at least consistent with that, granted that there is no way to account for such a difference, and it is never really considered as an hypothesis.


And by what theory could gravity be different 250,000,000 years ago? Had Newton overlooked something?
Wayfarer August 19, 2017 at 01:27 #98419
Reply to Bitter Crank Damned if I know, BC. All I'm saying is the preponderance of gigantic animals - even including dragonflies and cockroaches - seems to suggest that something was very different in the Jurrasic era.
Wayfarer August 19, 2017 at 01:30 #98420
Besides wasn't it the nature of gravity about which Newton famously declared to 'feign no hypothesis'?
Wayfarer August 19, 2017 at 01:33 #98421
Quoting Michael Ossipoff
we watch "Jurassic" Dino-movies every week.


Speaking of movies - that excellent sci-fi thriller with Matt Damon trapped alone on Mars - it was pointed out that you couldn't have a gale of the kind that disabled the station on Mars, because the atmosphere only has a third of the density of Earth's.
Banno August 19, 2017 at 04:51 #98461
I'm a bit surprised no one has chimed in that there was no one around in the cretasious, and hence that we cannot know if there even was any gravity...
Banno August 19, 2017 at 04:53 #98462
But my favourite Earth fact is still that the north magnetic pole is a south magnetic pole.
Banno August 19, 2017 at 04:55 #98463
Reply to Bitter Crank more oxygen allowed insects to grow larger. Nothing to do with gravity.
Michael Ossipoff August 19, 2017 at 05:07 #98465
Reply to Wayfarer

Less than 1/3, if I remember correctly. And the wind-pressure at a given windspeed is proportional to the air-density. So yes, the wind would be a lot less damaging.

Yes, it does seem a bit odd that everything, even the dragonflies, were bigger in those earlier eras.

I read that the Pterodactyls, especially the big Pteranadon, wouldn't have really been able to fly. They've suggested that Pternatadon, and maybe the other Pterodactyls, soared on a cliff-updraft to hunt fish, and then cllmbed back up to their nest, along the cliff-face.

And i've read that there was a Pterosaur even bigger than pteranadon.

Maybe that's it. The giant dragonflies were probably not bigger than some modern birds known to be able to fly.

Aerodynamicists used to say that a bumblebee couldn't fly, by their calculations, until someone figured out the various tricks that flying insects use. Like the "clap-fling" used also by pidgeons (rock-doves).

In Jurassic Park, of course the Pteranadons fly easily, but that might not be accurate. They fudge things when it suits the story. For example, I read that it's believed that the Pterosaurs were fish-eaters, but theyi're all chasing humans in Jurassic-III and jurassic-IV.

Michael Ossipoff
Michael Ossipoff August 19, 2017 at 13:43 #98530
I looked up Mars' atmospheric density, and it's only about 1% of Earth's. Wind's dynamic pressure is proportional to the air's density and the square of its speed. So Mars' 170 mph winds would only have the dynamic pressure of a 17 mph wind on Earth.

But the 170 mph sand-grains could still do erosion damage.

Michael Ossipoff
TimeLine August 30, 2017 at 10:30 #101071
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
Yes, there are some very interesting facts concerning the earth.


Yes. Yes there is.

:-|

Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
The equator is not stable, to begin with. The magnetic poles do not line up with the true poles, and are moving. And, the north/south axis flips from time to time, to mention a few, other than the wobble.


That's because of the earths core. The magnetic field - which is there to shield us from outside stuff and something visually seen in auroras - is constantly changing or reversing and geomagnetic excursions could occur at any stage; actually, the field itself is decreasing in shield strength.

Earth has anaemia.
noAxioms August 30, 2017 at 12:03 #101090
Quoting Wayfarer
I did acknowledge that earlier in the thread. It remains mysterious, however, why the mega-fauna of that age was so much bigger than anything that exists today. Some of the brachiopods weighed as much as today's whales. I was wondering if there is any global change that might explain this disparity.
So look to the biologists for answers. As a side note, I visited the Alaskan rain forest and also a small patch of woods just outside that zone which we dubbed 'honey I shrunk the kids'. Many plants were recognizable (the same ones I have at home), but about 4x the size I normally see. The dandelions stood about a meter high for instance.

Concerning gravity: Of the eight planets, five of them (including Earth) have pretty similar gravity, but the closest one to us is Saturn, despite massing over 100x as much. So additional mass alone does not necessarily translate to a weight difference. Mars and Mercury weight are almost identical at 3/8 Earth, and Jupiter is in a class by itself at 2.5x.
Wayfarer August 30, 2017 at 23:18 #101253
Quoting noAxioms
So look to the biologists for answers.


I did, and they don't appear to offer any. It's still not known.
Slobodan Miloševi? August 30, 2017 at 23:27 #101260
Reply to Wayfarer look to the physicists
BC August 31, 2017 at 02:29 #101292
Reply to Wayfarer One of the problems that MIGHT (I don't know) be in the way of an understanding of T Rex & Company's size is the paucity of fossil evidence. We only have those fossils which we happened to stumble on in weathered stone. We don't strip mine to find fossils. So the sequence of animals from the precambrian up to (pick a date, any date) is fragmentary.

We can't trace the long-term (over millions of years) increase of T Rex & Co.'s size. Then too, we don't have any DNA from T R & Co. Presumably they had genes which enabled them to get that big.

Look at dogs: they range from teacup miniatures to Great Danes and bigger. Only a few genes account for all of the dog differences. A horse that the Vikings used and spread around Europe ambles. It's walk is very smooth and even. Nice to ride. It has the odd habit of picking up it's front feet when it walks--like it was doing an exaggerated prance. 1 gene mutation granted this horse the ability to walk that way. Other horses can't do it.

Maybe T R & C had the good fortune to start out relatively large, bigger than whatever small prey they preyed upon. Maybe there was a lot of food, and they could afford to get bigger. Getting bigger just to starve doesn't have much point, after all.
Wayfarer August 31, 2017 at 04:46 #101316
Reply to Bitter Crank All well and good, but what is puzzling me is the biomechanics. After all by far and away the biggest things on Earth today are whales, but they're water-borne and so to all intents they don't have to carry their weight. So how is it that critters the size of whales used to be able to do move about? Why didn't their muscles separate from their bones if they turned around too quickly, due to sheer inertia? And it's not only dinosaurs - some of the pterosaurs and pterodactyls were the size of single-engine planes, and ancient dragonflies were the size of today's crows.

I just googled the question Why were dinosaurs so big? - there's quite a few pages, but it's still basically an unknown. So I'm simply guessing that there might have been a global parameter shift between now and then that helps explain it; and as the factor involves mass, then the requisite parameter is gravity. Of course it might be malarky, but from what I'm reading, nobody has any better ideas. X-)
BC August 31, 2017 at 05:15 #101328
Reply to Wayfarer what about plants? They also have to deal with gravity. What was the range in plant size at the time of the dinosaurs?

Also, mammals were not very big at this time -- they were generally quite small. If gravity was less, back then, why wouldn't they be bigger too?

A third: After T R & Co ran out of steam, didn't animals start getting smaller? If gravity was less back then, wouldn't animals have continued to be XXXL?

Fourth: Their bones, muscles, and connecting tissues were proportionate to their size. Why couldn't very big muscles attached to very big bones with big connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, etc.)? Maybe there were large ganglions located in the lower back to help coordinate tail and leg movement?

Five: How fast did T Rex & Co move? Presumably they didn't have to catch velociraptors for lunch; they probably looked around for a grazer and simple waddled up to it and bit it's head off.

If you look at alligators and crocodilia, none of them look like they'd be able to move very fast. But alligators manage to eat a few humans and their pets every now and then, some of them captured (by the gators) on dry land. There are alligators swimming around the flood waters of Houston right now, just waiting for some fat, luscious human to come bouncing along... SNAP!
Wayfarer August 31, 2017 at 05:33 #101332
Quoting Bitter Crank
Why couldn't very big muscles attached to very big bones with big connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, etc.)? Maybe there were large ganglions located in the lower back to help coordinate tail and leg movement?


Perhaps! But the giganticism of the sauropods seems on a different order to anything observed since.
noAxioms August 31, 2017 at 15:06 #101365
Found a pretty comprehensive article on the problem. Goes on for 5 pages and leaves few stones unturned, including the accretion suggested this thread posits. Also higher Earth spin (shorter day) and all sorts of physical and not necessarily biological explanations. So looking only to the biologists might indeed not be the right thing.

It considers a different gravitational constant G, and doesn't reject it for enough reasons. If G was less back then, the Earth would be cold because it would be much further from the sun. The author seems unaware of that part, but at least is unwilling propose such a fundamental hit to physics.

Some interesting points: The descendents of dinosaurs are birds, most of which are already far less dense than water. Maybe the dinos had that as well and simply didn't mass as much as would an alligator that size.

In the end, a pretty plausible explanation relates to the know small variance in temperature between various latitudes back then. The poles were nearly as warm as anywhere else, suggesting a much more dense atmosphere which would buoy up the large creatures. Maybe Earth was more like Venus back then. What evidence do we have against that? Such a suggestion implies we're losing atmosphere quickly and there won't be much left after not too long. They already predict the oceans will be gone soon, but I thought it more from a warming sun than from just losing it all to space.
Wayfarer September 01, 2017 at 00:01 #101495
Reply to noAxioms Sure is comprehensive! I haven't read that much of it yet, but it is gratifying to see that the issue in the OP is indeed recognised by science:

The exceptionally large size of the terrestrial animals of the Mesozoic era is not a subtle oddity to be dismissed but rather it is a glaring paradox that must be investigated. The essence of science - our belief that we exist in a rational reality - is at stake here.


Interesting site, thanks!
szardosszemagad September 07, 2017 at 22:14 #103236
Quoting Wayfarer
800,000,000,000 tons, or 725,747,792,000,000 kg if my calculation is correct. Dr Google tells me the mass of the earth is 5.972 × 10^24 kg.


You asked a straight question and I'm going to give you a straight answer.

The space dust that has fallen on Earth is 8 followed by 14 zeroes. In Kilograms. The mass of the earth is 6 followed by 24 zeroes. In Kilograms.This means that the size of earth increased by less than 0.000 000 001 percent. This is not at all significant, despite being more voluminous or heavy than all the buildings put together on manhattan island or all the pyramids in Egypt or the Great Wall of China, or the Great Barrier Reef near Australia, or... there is nothing in Europe I can think of which is similar in magnitude of size. All the cows of Europe.

Wayfarer September 07, 2017 at 23:30 #103249
Reply to szardosszemagad Thank you! I did eventually come to a similar conclusion after having started this thread, although I do note that the 'giganticism' of dinosaurs is still regarded as a mystery.