Holy shit!
In the span of a lifetime everyone undergoes a rich variety of experiences. Some are joyful, others sad, and still others are simply boring.
What I'm interested in is a class of experience that can be described as shocking/surprising and our reactions to it.
Some shocking experiences are earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, deaths, winning a lottery/competition, etc. (Use your imagination). Like any other type of experience shocking events evoke a response/reaction from the experiencer. It is in these reactions that I find something intriguing. I shall focus on verbal responses as indicators of our state of mind while experiencing shocking events.
''Holy shit!'' is a common expression greeting shocking events. Even a superficial examination of ''Holy shit!'' reveals that this, to say the least, is an oxymoronic juxtaposition of words. ''Holy'' connotes goodness and suggests something to be aspired to while ''shit'' connotes bad and something to be avoided. Similarly we use ''what the hell!'' and ''good heavens!'' in response to shocking events. It is plain to see that ''heaven'' and ''hell'' are run contrary to each other and yet they are both common responses to shock. I don't know whether other languages/cultures have this curious feature or not but I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say that it is a characteristic of other cultures/languages too.
Non-verbal responses to shock also exhibit this curious behavior e.g. hysterical laughter in response to extreme pain, tears on winning a competition.
My question is how do we make sense of this ''strange'' behavior?
Does shock short-circuit our minds, making us contradict ourselves?
What I'm interested in is a class of experience that can be described as shocking/surprising and our reactions to it.
Some shocking experiences are earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, deaths, winning a lottery/competition, etc. (Use your imagination). Like any other type of experience shocking events evoke a response/reaction from the experiencer. It is in these reactions that I find something intriguing. I shall focus on verbal responses as indicators of our state of mind while experiencing shocking events.
''Holy shit!'' is a common expression greeting shocking events. Even a superficial examination of ''Holy shit!'' reveals that this, to say the least, is an oxymoronic juxtaposition of words. ''Holy'' connotes goodness and suggests something to be aspired to while ''shit'' connotes bad and something to be avoided. Similarly we use ''what the hell!'' and ''good heavens!'' in response to shocking events. It is plain to see that ''heaven'' and ''hell'' are run contrary to each other and yet they are both common responses to shock. I don't know whether other languages/cultures have this curious feature or not but I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say that it is a characteristic of other cultures/languages too.
Non-verbal responses to shock also exhibit this curious behavior e.g. hysterical laughter in response to extreme pain, tears on winning a competition.
My question is how do we make sense of this ''strange'' behavior?
Does shock short-circuit our minds, making us contradict ourselves?
Comments (52)
There is a prosaic answer. A "lower brain" area - the cingulate cortex - is responsible for expressive vocalisation in social animals. So chimps hoot and howl in an "emotional" fashion using this bit of brain. Then human speech built levels of more abstract motor planning - capable of supporting syntactical speech acts - above this.
So when we get a jolt of adrenaline, the cingulate kicks in with the rote expletives. Instead of just howling, we exclaim god damn or holy shit. But the reasons are the same.
In the same way reading words like fuck create a cingulate level shock. Bad language leaps out and catches us at that more basic emotional valuing level.
The religious, sexual or scatalogical connotations of the words is a learnt association. The cingulate just wants to make a noise, and what comes out most naturally is any language that has that association to its job of evaluating shocking things even before the higher brain can turn around and focus its full attention.
So, it's just normal brain function in the sense that the lowerbrain reacts without involvement of the higher? brain.
However, of the many possible responses - we could cry out, groan, moan (we do that too), etc. - why is there, among these expletives, logical contradictions? In other words, instead of simply crying out ''ah'' or ''oh'' or ''fuck'' or ''shit'' why do we have in our reaction-bank contradictions/contraries? It appears to me that the lower brain is not in harmony with the higher brain at a fundamental level.
Semantic content is not so important here as emotional connotation or weight, so the presence of contradictory meanings in our reaction bank shouldn't be cause for puzzlement. What would be odd would be emotionally neutral words finding their way into these phrases. If you meet someone who shouts "book shit" or "fuck jacket" every time he stubs his toe, consider calling a psychologist. Anyway, as it happens, religious, sexual and scatalogical words tend to be among the more taboo or emotionally laden and therefore among the most closely hooked up to the brain areas controlling emotional reaction. Logical opposition in terms of denotation is irrelevant in this context.
Quoting TheMadFool
Quoting TheMadFool
What's interesting, (and this is something Steven Pinker mentions in his book "The Stuff of Thought", which has a whole chapter ("The Blaspheming Brain") on this issue) is that aphasics who have lost the ability to articulate language due to damage to areas of the left hemisphere of their brains can retain the ability to swear, suggesting swear phrases may come packaged in prefabricated formulas stored in the right hemisphere of the brain - the one which is also most implicated in emotional reactions, especially negative ones. Pinker implicates the basal ganglia though rather than the right cerebral cortex (Tourette's sufferers, famous for uncontrolled swearing, for example, have damage here). So, yes, a "lower brain" area, and seemingly not only not in harmony with, but functioning independently of higher brain linguistic systems.
More or less what apo said in other words.
However, I still have certain doubts about the explanation provided.
Are we sure that this is the work of our lower brains? I may be wrong but certain mystical traditions like Zen Buddhism are all about shocking you into realization of truth - whatever that is. Such practices seem to imply that real truth is to be found in the lower brain as opposed to our higher brains. So it is possible that what you call lower brain could actually be the higher brain. This goes to renew my curiosity in the contradictory nature of our lower (higher?) brains.
Any thoughts?
I'm giving the simplified version, but it is like a short circuiting as you said. The lower emotional areas are involved in normal speech acts, giving the felt tone and emphasis. But a sudden startled response is a reflexive response - a quick physiological reorientation to get prepared while the more complex analysis by the higher brain starts trying to catch up.
So normally everything would work together in smoother fashion. But when things are surprising, we get a quick flush of emotional "getting ready" in a fifth of a second, followed by the full attentional analysis after half a second. And in that time we have yelped or sworn, as well as jumped or tensed and started to focus our attention.
The way to think about it is that we need to react to the world as fast as possible. So the brain is set up to start with a quick and dirty emergency response - shit, something's happening. Then a split second later, the more considered analysis can kick in.
Thus the lower brain is about quick simple habits. The higher brain is about creative and considered plan making. And they work in combination, but with slightly different inherent speeds.
I have a fair grasp of what you're saying. Your posts explain the process of how we respond to extremely stressful events. However, I find it puzzling why you don't find anything interesting in the content (contradictions) of the stress-induced reactions.
At the risk of boring you let me repeat myself. Zen Buddhism is especially famous for Koans which are deliberately shock-inducing e.g. what is the sound of one hand clapping? The same thing may be said of other mystical traditions in various religions. All this, of course, indicating that the real truth is hidden somewhere in the lower? brain.
Does this not merit a careful investigation?
It is surely environmental. For instance, notions like masculinity play a pivotal role in opinions that are not really authentic, particularly in relation to moral points of view. I said recently that to be loved is something earned and that one must appreciate how to give love in order to recognise what they should do to earn it, but the men I spoke to immediately denied the concept of love in its entirety because it was like their masculinity depended upon it. People have been taught that earning respect is a given if you conform to the right image and so people are not only not learning how to give correctly, but they are also expecting it to be given if they do conform. Those who have conformed to these notions are the ones that react with confusion since they are shown their perceptions of the world are false.
Reactions themselves could even get violent or aggressive because their entire identity is at risk.
So, if you met an attractive girl who is funny and highly intelligent, you would not be startled?
I'm confident that there's plenty.
Good answer.
There's a significant difference between the kind of reflexive verbal ejaculate that results in swear phrases, and the sudden shock of deep realization a Zen Koan might cause. Note for a start that the words are going in opposite directions in each case and are absolutely opposed in terms of semantic richness. The Zen Koan is likely, if it's to have any meaningful effect, to resonate with connections that involve higher brain functions. The fact that it may be difficult to articulate that effect in words doesn't mean the higher brain isn't involved. The swear word reflex on the other hand is at best cathartic and at worst embarrassing. In terms of meaning, there's really not much to look for.
The environment has a role to play in all reactions with a linguistic character, of course. I don't see how that fact isn't accommodated by what I wrote, or how what you've written fits into the issue raised by the OP.
The failure to consider non-verbal responses to shock that exhibits curious behaviour, which heavily involves psychological frameworks; the OP mentioned hysteria, for instance. The exhibitions of irrationality are often induced by the shock reflecting on their perceptual understanding and changes to their self-awareness which, itself, can be shocking.
I see where you're coming from now.
"the cingulate kicks in with the rote expletives" - WTF
"curious behavior e.g. hysterical laughter" - LOL
It would make a good T-shirt slogan. I think it already has.
Well, coming at the issue from another angle, I think it's safe to assume that we're using our higher brains in this discussion. I presume logic and rationality are in play here - in a sense the higher brain is analyzing the situation (lower brain). Also assuming here that the higher brain doesn't tolerate contradictions - they're impossibles in the realm of logic and are anathema to any ''worthwhile'' mental pursuit. In a sense all of philosophical history has been an attempt to remove contradictions from all discourse and polishing ideas to crystal clarity (exaggerated?).
If you agree with me upto this point and you hold our higher brains to be sole purveyors/custodians of truth then we have a serious problem because sitting in the backyard (lower brains) is a world of contradictions/contraries/inconsistencies.
You are analyzing an observed / remembered reaction to a sudden, intense traumatic event in the leisurely comfort of our philosophy forum and over-thinking it. When your are T-boned in an intersection on your way to work, there is a 99.99999% certainty you won't be wondering what zen koans have to do with your reaction.
The words that bubble up from
Quoting apokrisis
will have to be words you have heard/used before and have available, and they have to match the situation. "Holy cow" has been an expression of amazement / shock much longer than "holy shit". According to Google Ngram, "holy cow" has been used (in print) since 1800. "Holy shit" started appearing in print abruptly in 1960. The Supreme Court obscenity ruling had something to do with that.
I'm 99.99999% certain that if you are T-boned in your car, you will not say "oh fudge", which hit peak usage in the 1970s. If, on June 25th, 1977, you dropped your keys on the wet sidewalk you might have said "oh fudge", were you old enough to be carrying keys at the time.
This is intriguing but I don't see how it figures into the cingulate cortex and to shocked reactions. Unless, of course, your saying "to be loved is something earned" was a sudden, shocking, traumatic event to the guys you were speaking to.
I once knew someone who could suppress their gag reflex.
Not many people do get me, but in saying that admittingly it was not explained all to well. I had a long day rock-climbing with whinging girls.
The point was that when you analyse something like hysteria, exaggerated emotions like uncontrollable laughter in the face of a shocking experience and other really strange exhibitions or behavioural displays indicates these conversion disorders are usually due to the person being unable to manage the ensuing shock or distress and so resort to highly imaginative actions to convert the anxiety into something that is not anxious - hence laughter, or sexual displays etc. This is the same with dissociative disorders or even people who experience PTSD.
The brain instinctually desires the immediate alleviation of distress or anxiety and as such people can during traumatic or shocking experiences repress the shock - this is a non-verbal expression, what you mentioned.
Of course they were whinging -- after 2 of them had just splattered on the sharp rocks at the bottom of the cliff.
What I was attempting to convey - albeit poorly as I tend to get assumptive that people would simply get it - was that people adopt false perceptions of the world based on notions like masculinity and their identity over time forms under the umbrella of these misconceptions and so solidifies as reality. When these misconceptions are shaken, somehow, where they are shown that the structure of their perceptions and identity are actually false, they are confronted - shockingly - with the 'truth' or with self-awareness because they realise that the way that they viewed and believed in the world around them was not actually real. This can be confronting when you tell them or show to them that they are thinking incorrectly and sometimes such people exhibit violent or aggressive behaviour towards the party that exposes their false idea of the world since it may result in the complete collapse of their identity.
I guess what I was trying to show was how ideas of love are rejected by some men who only do that because it is a masculine attribute and so go on living brutish lives that when they are confronted with real 'love' get completely shocked and baffled and start displaying odd behaviour.
:-O
No, it was indoors...
One sees this sort of reaction a lot in thought about gender, sex sexuality and identity, where the meaning or status of an individual is found or argued to be otherwise to what has been thought-- ontological shock, where existence is found to mean something which is impossible.
It's traumatic because it involves the undoing of how someone understanding the world to with respect to identity, status, power and worth, a loss of the ideas and narratives which one has sorted the world into-- those who they thought were men are suddenly women, women who are supposed to have vaginas sometimes have penis, those who are meant to be only attracted to the opposite sex suddenly seek the same sex, men who find their masculinity of possessing and parading their sexual partners is not love, etc.
Quoting TheWillowOfDarkness
We are to assume, I suppose, that the agents pointing out to these guys that their thinking is incorrect, or undoing someone's understanding of the world with respect to identity, status, power, and worth, are correct and the objects of their instruction are wrong. I mean, armed with right theory and right praxis, how could agents correcting these neanderthal troglodytes possibly go wrong?
You'd have to be able to with the stuff you swallow. Terrible doesn't equal true. Beware the stuff you joke about -- you believe it after awhile.
Not at all. The reaction is against the very idea-- it's unthinkable, "crazy," for it defies their idea of what is logically necessary-- not merely the act of being wrong.
Someone's shock or disgust at challenging meaning doesn't define it's right.Whether a new understanding is right or wrong always a question of itself.
Though, it is true such shock can see people not engaging with a challenging meaning that is right. To maintain the status of their idea, people will often does disregard a challenging meaning, treating it as if it's not really an idea (e.g. "I just can't understand that" "That meaning is not real. It's just a delusion or phase" ).
That one's true too. The kinds of facial expressions you make the most will determine how attractive and approachable you look, and this will become more and more true as you age.
If you were to see a state-of-the-art skyscraper in a city and slums right next to it wouldn't you be, at least, mildly surprised?
And here we are in the modern age, a grand edifice, a marvel of rationality, built by our so-called ''higher brain'' only to realize that lurking deep within is the ''lower brain'' - confused, self-contradictory and irrational. No cause for concern?
Life would be better for all of us, I think, if we stopped thinking (in our high brain) that life is all about whatever the high-brain comes up with. The high brain would do well to acknowledge the importance of our lower functions, like emotions -- which, by the way, have cables reaching into the high brain from the low brain attached to levers which the emotional centers of the lower brain can pull, and send the high brain into a tizzy, if they so choose.
So we have overly cerebral people who think they have it all figured out until the Department of Gonad Motivation down in the Sex Control Center gets a load of that most attractive number walking by and stamps its foot on the GO pedal and makes the poor slob up in the forebrain have palpitations and hot flashes.
I'm sure you agree that for the proper functioning of the whole person it is necessary for the parts to function in harmony with each other. Like music each instrument must interact with the others to form a harmonious whole that we hear as a beautiful piece. If there's the slightest dissonance among the instruments what emerges is cacophony/noise. Coming to the issue of our minds (keeping the music analogy in mind) we have a fundamental problem - our higher brain is not in accord with our lower brain. The musical equivalent regarding the situation of mind is NOISE.
Do you still think there's no need for concern?
You mean like, why do I think that movies aren't as representative of reality as real events?
First, we need to do away with higher and lower brain. The whole brain evolved, and if some parts are old, like the brain stem (the reptile brain), the reptile brain performs vital functions -- like keeping your heart beating, your breathing steady, putting you to sleep, and very important, waking you up. Emotion and cognition are tied in together -- which is why, when we hear beautiful poetry or soaring political rhetoric, we feel it. Emotions affect thinking, thinking affects our emotions. Exercising the body helps the brain function better. A healthy brain keeps the body healthy.
Philosophers sometimes rely too heavily on the good work of the pre-frontal cortex and look askance at those deeper functions in the hippocampus, amygdala, and so on.
So, harmonizing starts with accepting what is. From what is, we move to what can be. Emotions can be toned up, and thoughts can be directed into healthier lines of investigation. If there is heavy conflict between the emotional centers and the cognitive centers, maybe professional help is needed, but most people are not so troubled.
Let's say if there is too much dissonance, or nothing but dissonance, we end up with the noise of a cacophony. Picking up the musical theme, a little dissonance can add a great deal--as many a composer has found. In the course of living our lives, we sometimes have the opportunity to deliberately act in discord (because we want to) with what we think is best, or most polite or proper. So, maybe we engage in some improper sex with a stranger that we know definitely does not pass muster with the rules and regulations. But because of the frisson of dissonance, the sex is about as good as sex can get. [Sadly, scandal is NO GUARANTEE of great sex.]
But the higher-lower brain dissonance I refer to is not ''little''. It's reasonable to expect a certain level of disharmony - nothing's perfect.
In the case of our brains the disharmony is fundamental. Inconsistencies arising in the lower brain directly threaten the very essence of our higher brains - rationality.
Also take note, in this discussion we're using the higher brain to evaluate the issue. So, it's slightly unfair. Unfortunately, the lower brain cannot be consciously turned on and so we're left with a lop-sided analysis of the matter. Perhaps, frustrated by my dogged insistence, I may be able to shock you into uttering an expletive and we'd know what the lower brain thinks of the higher brain:D
I don't know what you're goin' on about.
Again, maybe the phrase predates that era by a lot, though. I don't know.
Quoting TheMadFool
You are quite right about this: a highly agitated, disruptive state of emotions will certainly interfere and threaten our rational thinking. When this disruption is sustained, we call it 'mental illness'-- such as when someone is afflicted with bi-polar disorder or major depression. Even when the disruption is brief (such as in a fit of jealous rage) the results an be disastrous.
But one thing we can not forget: the higher thinking functions of the brain were never and are never separated from each other. They evolved to work together. I have "a feeling" (emotional brain at work) that quite often the dissonance is a result of the rational brain not paying attention to the emotional weather.
For instance: Perhaps you have come to find your intellectual job very burdensome, and you can't seem to do it well (where once one could). You may spend a lot of time analyzing what is happening on the job, but the analysis doesn't help. The circumstances of the job may have changed, but it is also possible that your emotions are no longer satisfied by the rewards of the job, or are offended by circumstances.
Your emotions may be conspiring to find something more rewarding. You aren't aware of the conspiracy because you are out of touch with your emotions. Your work deteriorates and you get fired. Oddly, you suddenly feel much better. Emotions 1, rational mind 0.
I know in my own life that I should have paid more attention to my emotions. I was often working at cross purposes. What I was doing was in conflict with what I wanted, and a lot of time was wasted pursuing dead ends.
The neuroscientists have looked. The answer is in. Everything works together fine on the whole. It is not unnatural to jerk your hand off a hot surface even if your spine seems a rather lowly level of thinking matter to grant such an important decision to. And I would rather be driven by a driver competent enough to be mindlessly negotiating the traffic with their mid brain habits rather than the nervous learner where the prefrontal is having to navigate a blizzard of unfamiliar sensations with uncertain results.
The biggest threat to rationality is in fact just badly trained habits of thought. Folk can latch on to an untested idea and feel a passionate conviction for it. They are indeed stuffed if they mistake that lower brain evaluation of their own competence at rationalisation as the truth of things.
Oh yeah, I forgot about your whole words thing, haha, I am so going to write posts to you full of Aussie slang.
Anyway, well in the arvo the girls started sooking because they went overboard with the bikkies during lunch and thought they were going to cark it from the climb, so they wouldn't stop earbashing me. I am a bit of a figjam when in my sporty moods and get frustrated at kangaroos loose in the top paddock.
Whinge is also British Isles, so you probably got it from them.
According to the Urban Dictionary, to wit:
Sooking
An Australian slang term used to indicate another person is soft, easily upset, or just a plain pussy.
Joe: I'm in so much pain right now, I've got such a bad bruise on my knee.
Bob: *Looks at Joe's Knee* You call that a bruise, don't be such a sook, my dick has had bigger bruises on it than that.
John: Yeah Joe you fucking pussy, don't be such a sook.
Sookie
Sookie, Sukie, Sukee - An easy woman. Easily scored pussy. Cross cultural languages all relatively carry the same meaning. Native languages imply "other pussy" as well as "gullible pussy". All are meant as derogatory toward the one called.
"Other pussy"? What kind of insult is that?
Arvo
One of the many words that Australians have cut syllables off and replaced with "-o". This one represents the hours after 12pm, and is used by people, myself included, who can't be bothered saying "-fternoon".
Hey Davo, I'm goin' to the servo for arvo smoko.
Translation: David, I'm going to the service station to purchase some food for the afternoon break.
Bikkies
1) Plural of Bikkie.
2) What Australians call a biscuit.
3) The Australian version of the snack 'cookie'.
The other Ozlandic slang you used was too debased for even the urban dictionary to grok.
Gawd, what an appalling abuse of the language! It's as bad as the American deep south and black English (or "Ebonics"). We do not approve of either black English or ebonics. Black English is bone lazy. They can't even say their archetypal curse, "mother fucker" properly. It's been mumbled down to "mofo".
Dizgusting. (In dramatic rendering, "dizgusting" is a bit more repulsive than mere "disgusting",