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When lies become the truth by accident/ chance

Benj96 August 28, 2021 at 08:23 3350 views 15 comments
If someone says statement A at point A in time and the statement is currently false, but the statement is not read until point B in time when statement A has in the meantime become true/ factual. Can we say person A has lied?

For example someone (A) leaves a note saying “your husband is cheating on you They were at the park today” Which they write out of spite/ jealousy and is to their knowledge false. But the person (B) doesn’t read it for a week and when they do the husband indeed admits they are cheating on them and did go to the park that day?

How can person A be giving an account of something that is true yet be a liar simultaneously?

This is an example I think of how time impacts the factual/ belief or truth/ falsity status of statements/ information

Comments (15)

Tom Storm August 28, 2021 at 08:40 #585866
The lie didn't become truth. The liar is not giving an account of a fact - the situation in the lie just happens to coincidentally match the facts over time, so what? It's still a lie.

James Riley August 28, 2021 at 14:13 #585930
Whether a statement is a lie, is not determined by time or the objective truth of the matter asserted. It's a lie if the declarant thought it was a lie when stated. It's the subjective understanding of the declarant. One can be wrong and not have lied, or be a liar. One can state an objective truth but be a liar if they thought they were lying.
T Clark August 28, 2021 at 16:05 #585951
Quoting James Riley
Whether a statement is a lie, is not determined by time or the objective truth of the matter asserted. It's a lie if the declarant thought it was a lie when stated. It's the subjective understanding of the declarant. One can be wrong and not have lied, or be a liar. One can state an objective truth but be a liar if they thought they were lying.


Sometimes, when I disagree with my wife and she's pissed at me, she says "That's right, I'm a liar." I say, "No, you're just wrong."

James Riley August 28, 2021 at 17:08 #585968
Quoting T Clark
Sometimes, when I disagree with my wife and she's pissed at me, she says "That's right, I'm a liar." I say, "No, you're just wrong."


If there is one thing that pisses people off, it's reason. :lol:
Deleted User August 28, 2021 at 17:13 #585970
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James Riley August 28, 2021 at 17:20 #585974
Quoting tim wood
Aka woman-bane.


[Looking over my shoulder before responding . . .]

:wink:
Deleted User August 28, 2021 at 17:26 #585976
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James Riley August 28, 2021 at 17:28 #585978
T Clark August 28, 2021 at 18:31 #585992
Quoting tim wood
Aka woman-bane.


Nothing like a little misogyny to lighten up the mood.
Deleted User August 28, 2021 at 18:46 #585997
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T Clark August 28, 2021 at 18:49 #585999
Quoting tim wood
Really? In your life's experience women are the reasoners and welcome reason, more so or equally with men?


Shhhhhh. I know sometimes it's hard for old folks to remember we shouldn't say everything we think out loud.
Deleted User August 28, 2021 at 18:57 #586005
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TheMadFool August 29, 2021 at 05:54 #586134
Quoting Benj96
how time impacts the factual/ belief or truth/ falsity status of statements/ information


[quote=Heraclitus]The only constant in life is change.[/quote]

What is meant by change? It's basically the truth value of propositions switching from true to false or vice versa with the passage of time. The universe is in dynamic flux as Heraclitus observed thousands of years ago and truth/falsity too is part of this continuous metamorphosis the cosmos, all in it, undergoes moment to moment. For instance, I was an infant, now no more and I'm alive as I write this but I won't be at some point.

The note consisting of the words, "Your husband is cheating on you They were at the park today" becomes true precisely because of change.

It bears mentioning that some ideas/names seem to ignore transformations e.g. New York city in 1800's is vastly different from today's New York city but this isn't reflected in the name which remains the same. Similarly, adult people are called by the same name given to them when they were infants i.e. people's identity are thought to be constant throughout their life despite the obvious ways in which they alter, physically and mentally. Souls? A topic for another discussion.

This (transitory nature of truths about our world) is why people have been in search of eternal truths. Some such can be found in mathematics: given the same axioms, 2 + 2 = 4 is an eternal truth; the sum of all the angles in a triangle in Euclidean space will forever be equal to 2 right angles.

Parmenides disagrees,

[quote=Parmenides]Change is an illusion.[/quote]

As per Parmenides, the note was a lie, is a lie, will always be a lie. Odd that!
baker August 29, 2021 at 07:40 #586167
Quoting Benj96
How can person A be giving an account of something that is true yet be a liar simultaneously?


By 1. not knowing that it is true, and 2. by speaking with the intention to deceive.

It's the intention to deceive that makes something a lie.
Prishon August 29, 2021 at 07:47 #586172
The truth about the interpretation of QM.

The truth about the standard model.

By telling I didnt stole a thing in the supermarket (to let not wife to worry) while at the same time knowing I stole a bottle of fruity juice (these cost so much!).