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What did Voltaire refer to?

Pax July 17, 2021 at 15:42 7075 views 26 comments
Does anyone have a suggestion to what Voltaire refers to in this quote from Candide? What can one call this will/desire? Is there a single word that captures this concept?

”I should like to know which is worse: to be ravished a hundred times by pirates, and have a buttock cut off, and run the gauntlet of the Bulgarians, and be flogged and hanged in an auto-da-fe, and be dissected, and to row in a galley -- in short, to undergo all the miseries we have each of us suffered -- or simply to sit here and do nothing? That is a hard question,' said Candide”

Comments (26)

Deleted User July 17, 2021 at 23:37 #568797
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
Gregory July 17, 2021 at 23:41 #568800
Nietzsche asks whether at the moment of death you would want to relive your life. If you would, then you succeeded in life
BC July 18, 2021 at 00:08 #568809
Reply to Pax Did you, or are you reading Candide? If not, it's an easy read, and pretty short.

Wikipedia:It begins with a young man, Candide, who is living a sheltered life in an Edenic paradise and being indoctrinated with Leibnizian optimism by his mentor, Professor Pangloss.[8] The work describes the abrupt cessation of this lifestyle, followed by Candide's slow and painful disillusionment as he witnesses and experiences great hardships in the world. Voltaire concludes Candide with, if not rejecting Leibnizian optimism outright, advocating a deeply practical precept, "we must cultivate our garden", in lieu of the Leibnizian mantra of Pangloss, "all is for the best" in the "best of all possible worlds".


The horrors he lists, some of them absurd, all happened to characters in the story. Are you familiar with Leonard Bernstein's opera, "Candide"? It's a great show. Here's a sample... Here Pangloss (with his face disfigured from syphilis) explains why everything is for the best to Candide.

It begins with a young man, Candide, who is living a sheltered life in an Edenic paradise and being indoctrinated with Leibnizian optimism by his mentor, Professor Pangloss.[8] The work describes the abrupt cessation of this lifestyle, followed by Candide's slow and painful disillusionment as he witnesses and experiences great hardships in the world. Voltaire concludes Candide with, if not rejecting Leibnizian optimism outright, advocating a deeply practical precept, "we must cultivate our garden", in lieu of the Leibnizian mantra of Pangloss, "all is for the best" in the "best of all possible worlds".

Pax July 18, 2021 at 07:43 #568894
Reply to tim wood I understand the concept but I don’t know what to call it. How can this ”will to rather face suffering than boredom” be defined so that one does not need examples to explain it?

Right now in my notes i just write ”Candide’s suffering”.
Pax July 18, 2021 at 07:53 #568897
Reply to Bitter Crank Yeah actually reading Candide will probably give me a better understanding. Good suggestion and thanks for the recommendation!
TheMadFool July 18, 2021 at 08:54 #568913
Quoting Pax
”I should like to know which is worse: to be ravished a hundred times by pirates, and have a buttock cut off, and run the gauntlet of the Bulgarians, and be flogged and hanged in an auto-da-fe, and be dissected, and to row in a galley -- in short, to undergo all the miseries we have each of us suffered -- or simply to sit here and do nothing? That is a hard question,' said Candide”


Good question. However, the choices don't make any sense. I didn't know Voltaire was logically that inept!

[quote=Voltaire]Le meglio è l'inimico del bene.[/quote]

Hmmmmm...
Olivier5 July 18, 2021 at 09:34 #568915
Reply to Pax It's humoristic. Evidently it's better to be slightly bored than to go through all these miseries.
Pax July 18, 2021 at 10:16 #568920
Reply to Olivier5 Yes there is an element of sarcasm to it, but I believe there is another element as well. However I don’t know what to call this other concept. The concept of willingly choosing some suffering in contrast to the boredom of comfortability.
TheMadFool July 18, 2021 at 10:18 #568922
Quoting Pax
boredom


Quoting Olivier5
bored


Quoting tim wood
What do you think "he referred to"?


Definitely not boredom.

Pax July 18, 2021 at 10:23 #568923
Reply to TheMadFool It makes some sense if one interpret it as gradual instead of absolute. The question that baffles me is: what can I call the concept of willingly choosing some degree of suffering (or uncomfortability). Because we are not satisfied by the boredom of absolute comfortability.
TheMadFool July 18, 2021 at 10:41 #568925
Quoting Pax
The question that baffles me is: what can I call the concept of willingly choosing some degree of suffering (or uncomfortability). Because we are not satisfied by the boredom of absolute comfortability.


This seems related :point: Embodiment Is Burdensome.

The concept that comes closest to what you're saying is: Necessary Evil.

The conversation now slowly drifts towards Gottfried Leibniz's notion of Best Of All Possible Worlds, the intended target of Voltaire's mockery.
Olivier5 July 18, 2021 at 13:46 #568991
Reply to Pax It's been called risk-taking.
Olivier5 July 18, 2021 at 14:09 #568998
Quoting TheMadFool
Definitely not boredom.


What then?

TheMadFool July 18, 2021 at 17:24 #569078
Quoting Olivier5
Definitely not boredom.
— TheMadFool

What then?


One of the choices discussed is "...simply sit there and do nothing." This is not ennui. The other choice is clearly not something any person in faer right mind would be bored by.
Olivier5 July 18, 2021 at 17:30 #569084
Reply to TheMadFool Sitting there doing nothing does evoke boredom.
TheMadFool July 18, 2021 at 18:24 #569105
Quoting Olivier5
Sitting there doing nothing does evoke boredom.


You forgot the other half of the story.
Ciceronianus July 18, 2021 at 19:54 #569124
Quoting Pax
However I don’t know what to call this other concept. The concept of willingly choosing some suffering in contrast to the boredom of comfortability.
10 hours ago


It's a kind of self-indulgence, of the kind engaged in by those with far too much time on their hands.
Olivier5 July 18, 2021 at 20:02 #569125
Reply to TheMadFool I did not.
Pax July 18, 2021 at 20:32 #569128
Reply to TheMadFool Definitely interesting reads!

However, I do not refer to the duties or burdens forced upon us by living, metioned by Inyenzi. Rather the will to carry a burden even when one has the option to comfortably sit and do nothing. Other quotes that embody the same concept:

”Have I been made for this, to lie under the blankets and keep myself warm?” - Marcus Aurelius. A question that Aurelius strongly answered ”no” to.

”What makes you think that if you had everything you asked for, that would satisfy you? What if being dissatisfied is part of what satisfies you? What if the fact that you have to have limits and need them and that there’s an element of insanity in the world, and there’s an element of insecurity and vulnerability. What if that’s what you need? What if that’s what you want? What if that’s what gives your life meaning? You’re gonna be like a lion after its eaten a zebra and do nothing but sleep. That hardly constitutes the appropriate human paradise. What makes people think that merely to provide economic security would be sufficient? Who wants that? It’s what you offer a cow in its pen so that it remains calm and fat. It’s not something for human beings” - Jordan B. Peterson
Pax July 18, 2021 at 20:36 #569129
Reply to TheMadFool Why? They are two different options, one is adventurous in contrast to the completely other choice that is boring.
Pax July 18, 2021 at 20:50 #569133
Reply to Olivier5 I would say risk-taking concerns a lack of certainty. This however concerns the active choice of adversity.

Like why is the following quote by Gimli in the third Lord of the Rings movie exciting?: ” Certainty of death. Small chance of success. What are we waiting for?”.
Wayfarer July 19, 2021 at 04:24 #569305
[quote=Voltaire]”I should like to know which is worse: to be ravished a hundred times by pirates, and have a buttock cut off, and run the gauntlet of the Bulgarians, and be flogged and hanged in an auto-da-fe, and be dissected, and to row in a galley -- in short, to undergo all the miseries we have each of us suffered -- or simply to sit here and do nothing? That is a hard question,' said Candide”[/quote]

[quote=Pascal]All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.[/quote]
TheMadFool July 19, 2021 at 04:59 #569314
Reply to Olivier5 Reply to Pax

First of all, my sincerest apologies. I got the wrong end of the stick.

The choices offered by Voltaire are:

1. Do something (endure some amount of suffering)

or

2. Do nothing

For Voltaire both are bad but he wants to know which of the two is worse?

The relevant concepts here are, as I pointed out, Lesser-Evilism and Necessary Evil. Voltaire finds himself between Scylla and Charybdis.

For my money, it boils down to some kind of calculus involving the degree of suffering involved. Reminds me of two aphorisms:

3. No pain, no gain [2 is worse]

and

4. The game is not worth the candle [1 is worse]

I suppose what all this means is we'll have to take a case-by-case approach to issues that boil down to a choice between 1 and 2.

@Wayfarer once, in another thread, commented "...least worst option..."

Olivier5 July 19, 2021 at 06:33 #569324
Reply to Pax Taking risk can be seen as a basic human need. It gives you "the thrill". You feel more alive, you will remember vividly what happened, will be able to tell countless stories that other people will listen to... Why do you think people climb the Everest or K2?
Olivier5 July 19, 2021 at 06:40 #569325
Quoting TheMadFool
. I got the wrong end of the stick.

That may be because you are an adventurous philosopher, a risk taking metaphysician.... :-) Better get it wrong once in a while than say nothing, or something amounting to nought.



TheMadFool July 19, 2021 at 07:14 #569329
Quoting Olivier5
That may be because you are an adventurous philosopher, a risk taking metaphysician.... :-) Better get it wrong once in a while than say nothing, or something amounting to nought.


There are some things one is better off without. Anyway I'll take that as a compliment.

Regarding boredom, if every situation eventually becomes a choice between enduring suffering or doing nothing, it would be repetitive and thus, as you said, boring. Becoming world-weary, another name for boredom, is inevitable. I suppose being capable of boredom is some kinda secret weapon we can deploy against reality - been there, done that, what's new? :yawn: