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How Movement Happens

elucid July 11, 2021 at 04:05 6025 views 25 comments
Hello,

This is a post about how movement happens. It's very simple. If an object moves from one point, to another, clearly there will be space between the objects previous position and it's new one. Clearly, the object did not go through all that in between space to get to the new position. So, we have to deduce that the object disappeared, and then reappeared in the new position without ever being in the space between.

Comments (25)

DingoJones July 11, 2021 at 05:06 #564788
Quoting elucid
Clearly, the object did not go through all that in between space to get to the new position.


Huh? That isnt clear at all. How else would the object get to the new position except by moving through the space between its positions?
javi2541997 July 11, 2021 at 05:22 #564794
Reply to elucid

Hello Elucid! I think your question can fit in the answer of Aristotle's theory of motion (Aristotle )

Motion," says Aristotle, "is the actualization of what potentially
is"

W. D. Ross writes:
For Aristotle "motion is 'the actualization of that which is potentially, as such.' I.e[b]. if there is something which is actually x and potentially
y, motion is the making actual of its y-ness."[/b]
Cuthbert July 11, 2021 at 08:31 #564862
Clearly, the object did not go through all that in between space to get to the new position.


Perhaps the object did go through all that in between space to get to the new position. The dog comes into your room having previously been in the living room. Perhaps he was present at every point in between the two places. At any rate, I would not say it is clear that he wasn't present throughout the journey.

Zeno's paradoxes work on different assumptions about the infinite or finite divisibility of space and time.
Metaphysician Undercover July 11, 2021 at 11:18 #564906
Reply to elucid
What the capacity of free will demonstrates to us, is that there is no continuity of existence from past to future. This means that any existing object must be recreated at each moment of passing time. In theology this principle is understood as God being required to maintain existence, It is why Newton proposed his first law of motion as supported by the Will of God.
Apollodorus July 11, 2021 at 11:50 #564921
Reply to elucid

I think "movement" is change in sensory perception, especially, but not exclusively visual perception.

What we really perceive are invisible particles or units of color that our mind builds into an "object" or patch of color that undergoes changes in relation to itself and other "objects" or patches of color.
MondoR July 12, 2021 at 22:57 #565927
There are no particles. What you are observing are continuous wave movements. Everything is waves. Observe waves in an ocean to understand the process.
Deleted User July 12, 2021 at 23:04 #565932
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Michael July 13, 2021 at 08:55 #566140
Reply to tim wood If movement is infinitely divisible then to move from one point to another requires having passed an infinite sequence of points in between, which for one reason or another is said to be impossible.
Corvus July 13, 2021 at 09:02 #566142
Movement in space is real. The concept of infinity is an illusion.
180 Proof July 13, 2021 at 09:34 #566164
:point: Spontaneous symmetry breakings. Quantum uncertainty. Thermodynamic gradients.
TheMadFool July 13, 2021 at 10:22 #566189
Quoting elucid
Clearly, the object did not go through all that in between space to get to the new position


Clearly?! Now that's what I call sorcery.
Deleted User July 13, 2021 at 13:30 #566284
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Michael July 13, 2021 at 13:51 #566288
Quoting tim wood
Who says? And how?


https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/paradox-zeno/#Dic
Michael July 13, 2021 at 13:57 #566292
Quoting tim wood
Consider: how much time is spent passing each point?


The issue about the time it takes to pass each point is only one of the issues to resolve (one that can be resolved if the time taken per point is a convergent series), but it's not the only one.

Consider that instead of just running past each point you also speak out the point ("half way", "quarter way", etc.). Even if we assume that we can speak arbitrarily quickly, the key question is "what is the first thing I say"? There can't be a first thing I say; there's no "first point" to pass (after "start"). If I can't even begin speaking each point then I can't even begin passing each point. You can't maths your way out of that problem.
Deleted User July 13, 2021 at 14:21 #566303
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Michael July 13, 2021 at 14:27 #566307
Quoting tim wood
I do not find anywhere in your citation where it says what you say it said. I may have missed it. Please be good enough to point it out.


And now there is a problem, for this description of her run has her travelling an infinite number of finite distances, which, Zeno would have us conclude, must take an infinite time, which is to say it is never completed. And since the argument does not depend on the distance or who or what the mover is, it follows that no finite distance can ever be traveled, which is to say that all motion is impossible.


Quoting tim wood
What problem, exactly?


There is no first point to pass, and so motion cannot start. Just as there is no first fraction to count, and so counting the fractions (in order) cannot start.
Michael July 13, 2021 at 14:29 #566311
Quoting tim wood
what exactly is it that is said to be impossible


Continuous motion.

Quoting tim wood
do you say it's impossible?


Yes.

However, motion is possible, therefore motion is discontinuous as the OP suggests.
frank July 13, 2021 at 14:34 #566312
Quoting Michael
There is no first point to pass, and so motion cannot start. Just as there is no first fraction to count, and so counting the fractions (in order) cannot start.


You need a Prime Mover.
Deleted User July 13, 2021 at 15:11 #566328
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Joshs July 13, 2021 at 15:34 #566336
Reply to Michael Quoting Michael
However, motion is possible, therefore motion is discontinuous as the OP suggests


Time is traditionally closely connected with motion. Does this mean that time is discontinuous too?
Michael July 13, 2021 at 15:35 #566337
Quoting tim wood
Planck distances are really small. Are you suggesting motion is essentially discontinuous because of Planck-scale constraints?


Not because of Planck-scale constraints, although it may be that the Planck-scale happens to be the smallest movement possible. I would say that continuous motion (moving through every [math]\frac{1}{2^n}m[/math] point in order from 0 to 1m) is impossible for the same reason that counting every [math]\frac{1}{2^n}[/math] in order from 0 to 1 is impossible: because there is no first step. Continuous motion seems to me to be logically impossible.

And that might make sense for Planck-scale objects, but in the macro-world, not everything is on the same Planck-brink at the same Planck-moment, so I would argue that for the macro thing, continuous motion is a no-brainer.


I'm not sure why the size of an object matters. My table is 1m wide and it's possible to move it 1mm. The distance moved doesn't need to be proportional to the size of the object.
TheMadFool July 13, 2021 at 15:45 #566343
Quoting frank
You need a Prime Mover


Agreed!
frank July 13, 2021 at 16:09 #566357
Quoting TheMadFool
Agreed!


Really?
TheMadFool July 13, 2021 at 16:29 #566364
Quoting frank
Really?


Yes, really!
Deleted User July 13, 2021 at 16:37 #566369
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