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East Asian Buddhists

Johnny5454 May 16, 2021 at 19:23 6300 views 24 comments
The fact is that one person who considered himself a Buddhist told me that Buddhists living in China, Japan, South Korea and Singapore are solipsists who do not believe that other people have consciousness, feelings, emotions and sensations.
But I do not believe it. It scared me.
So I want to ask you:

Do modern Buddhists living in China, Japan, South Korea, and Singapore(more than 400 million people) believe that all the people they see, all the people they talk to have thoughts, consciousness, feelings, feel emotions and sensations?

All the main modern schools of Buddhism in China, Japan, South Korea, Singapore and Vietnam believe and teach that all people in our world, all the people we see, all the people we talk to have thoughts, consciousness, memories, sensations, feelings and emotions ?

Comments (24)

baker May 17, 2021 at 09:03 #537574
Quoting Johnny5454
one person who considered himself a Buddhist


Which Buddhist school/tradition does this Buddhist propose to be a member of?
Johnny5454 May 17, 2021 at 09:28 #537586
Reply to baker
He spoke about all the main schools of Buddhism in China, Japan and South Korea (Chan, Zen, Seon, Pure Land)
baker May 17, 2021 at 09:48 #537596
Reply to Johnny5454 No, the question is:
Which Buddhist school/tradition does this Buddhist propose to be a member of?
Is this person a Mahayana Buddhist, a Theravada Buddhist, a Zen Buddhist, ...?
Johnny5454 May 17, 2021 at 09:52 #537599
Reply to baker
He is a Mahayana Buddhist
Tiberiusmoon May 17, 2021 at 10:13 #537606
Reply to Johnny5454
Like many religions through history they do change from practices to entirely new religions.
See here: https://www.freexenon.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/religion_tree.jpg

Like many philosophers in philosophy each religous follower can have different perspectives on religon.
As such can lead to disagreements.

If you are following a openly adopted culture/religion follow the teachings that give you self-discipline while not negatively affecting your well-being or the well-being of those around you.
And follow the culture of that religion that gives you joy.

Just because you do not understand a person's culture or views on culture it does not mean it is something to fear but something your yet to understand.
You also don't have to follow every fine detail of a religion either, you can live a fulfilling life by living how you see fit.
Johnny5454 May 17, 2021 at 10:26 #537611
Reply to Tiberiusmoon
I understand you, thank you.
But there are simply many Buddhists in the world and if they are all solipsists it would be scary.

I would like to know when I talk with Chinese Buddhists Chan or Chinese Pure Land Buddhists, will they believe that I have thoughts, consciousness, feelings, emotions, sensations?
Tiberiusmoon May 17, 2021 at 10:41 #537617
Reply to Johnny5454
Then ask them: "If that were true, why do we eat? Why do we drink?"
Because to value life is based on experiences and free will, If we feel hunger we eat, if we feel thirsty we drink, if we are in danger we feel threatened, it is because we value our own lives that we act on such impulse.
Externally if another were to value your life's needs then you would value that person's life more so.
Which can be the start of many friendships.
Tom Storm May 17, 2021 at 10:41 #537618
Quoting Johnny5454
if they are all solipsists it would be scary.


Why scary?
Johnny5454 May 17, 2021 at 10:53 #537622
Reply to Tiberiusmoon

Thank you. I just don't have the opportunity to ask Buddhists directly, so I want to ask experts who know about Buddhism:

All the main modern schools of Buddhism in China, Japan, South Korea, Singapore and Vietnam believe and teach that all people in our world, all the people we see, all the people we talk to have thoughts, consciousness, memories, sensations, feelings and emotions ?
Johnny5454 May 17, 2021 at 10:57 #537624
Reply to Tom Storm
Solipsism is a terrible idea.
More than 500,000,000 Buddhists live in the world. If they are all solipsist, it’s scary to realize that there are so many people in our world who support this terrible idea.
Tiberiusmoon May 17, 2021 at 10:58 #537626
Reply to Johnny5454
Isn't it one of buddha's teachings or will that his followers thought for themselves and that they are not constrained by his teachings?
Johnny5454 May 17, 2021 at 11:07 #537629
I don’t know sir. If I was an expert in Buddhism I would not ask here.
TheMadFool May 17, 2021 at 11:07 #537630
Quoting Johnny5454
Buddhists


Quoting Johnny5454
solipsists


@Wayfarer Anatt?

Buddhism has this concept of annat?, link above, in English, no-self. Taking this into account, solipsism which claims the self to be the only certain truth seems distinctly non-Buddhist in character. All is illusion (Maya) but the question is who/what is experiencing this illusion?
Tom Storm May 17, 2021 at 11:08 #537631
Reply to Johnny5454 Quoting Johnny5454
Solipsism is a terrible idea.
More than 500,000,000 Buddhists live in the world. If they are all solipsist, it’s scary to realize that there are so many people in our world who support this terrible idea.


I see, so you are scared at the prospect of that many solipsists. I hear you. You know, I hate to break it too you, but there are probably twice that many arseholes...

Buddhism is not generally known as solipsism.
Johnny5454 May 17, 2021 at 11:13 #537632
Reply to TheMadFool
Thank you.
But the question is: All the main modern schools of Buddhism in China, Japan, South Korea, Singapore and Vietnam believe and teach that all people in our world, all the people we see, all the people we talk to have thoughts, consciousness, memories, sensations, feelings and emotions?

baker May 17, 2021 at 12:04 #537639
Quoting Tiberiusmoon
Isn't it one of buddha's teachings or will that his followers thought for themselves and that they are not constrained by his teachings?

No, it isn't.
Tiberiusmoon May 17, 2021 at 12:06 #537640
Reply to baker
Fair enough.
baker May 17, 2021 at 12:08 #537643
Quoting Johnny5454
I just don't have the opportunity to ask Buddhists directly

Yes, you do: go to some Buddhist forums, e.g.:

Theravada: https://www.dhammawheel.com/
Mahayana: https://www.dharmawheel.net/
(Early) Buddhism: https://discourse.suttacentral.net/
baker May 17, 2021 at 12:10 #537644
Reply to Tiberiusmoon Do provide a scriptural reference for the claim "one of buddha's teachings or will [is] that his followers thought for themselves and that they are not constrained by his teachings".
Tiberiusmoon May 17, 2021 at 12:20 #537646
Reply to baker
Not a claim but a question. :)
Considering Buddha was a philosopher, you would think he promoted philosophy itself.
baker May 17, 2021 at 13:05 #537655
Reply to Tiberiusmoon You should read some primary Buddhist texts.
TheMadFool May 17, 2021 at 14:04 #537675
Quoting Johnny5454
Thank you.
But the question is: All the main modern schools of Buddhism in China, Japan, South Korea, Singapore and Vietnam believe and teach that all people in our world, all the people we see, all the people we talk to have thoughts, consciousness, memories, sensations, feelings and emotions?


The challenge for solpisism is this: granted that everything except one's own existence is doubtful but the catch is we simply can't distinguish minds that are real from minds that are not; after all, that is exactly the main premise of the slopsistic argument, no? If we could actually tell the difference between the two (real minds and unreal minds), solipsism would have been either vindicated or refuted decisively. Ergo, the real and the unreal can't be told apart and hence the distinction real-unreal is one without a difference. In other words, reality and illusion are one and the same thing and by extension, a real other mind is identical in every respect to an illusory other mind. Solipsism then is meaningless for the simple reason that though it casts doubt on reality, contemplates the possibility of it all being an illusion, it does so because it can't tell which is which and if that's the case, whence the distinction between reality and illusion?
synthesis May 17, 2021 at 16:56 #537773
Quoting Johnny5454
All the main modern schools of Buddhism in China, Japan, South Korea, Singapore and Vietnam believe and teach that all people in our world, all the people we see, all the people we talk to have thoughts, consciousness, memories, sensations, feelings and emotions ?


I might be able to help you out. I've been a dedicated Soto (Japanese lineage) Zen student for over 30 years but do not consider myself an expert.

Many people become quite confused with Zen or Buddhism because there are two aspects to it. One is the religion (what some like to refer to as the intellectualization of the spiritual essence) and the other, which is the actual spiritual practice (meditation), a non-intellectual pursuit.

The difficulties arise when attempting to intellectualize something that is non-intellectual. What makes for a great master (teacher) is their seeming ability to do just this, but it is not what they are doing. Understanding the teaching is purely experiential so the best teachers simply provide their students with the correct motivation. It is the student who must do the work (meditation).

Your confusion is common because when described the way you pose your question, the practice seems very different than what it actually is. Although quite an enigma, it is also the same which keeps it from being corrupted more than it would be otherwise. Fortunately, nobody has been able to corrupt the non-intellectual which is why Zen (in particular) has such a strong appeal to purists.

Count Timothy von Icarus June 28, 2021 at 02:47 #557850
Reply to TheMadFool

I don't know if I agree with that. The argument is that you can tell that your mind is a real one. You know that for sure, and that certitude us a real difference. On other minds it is necissarily agnostic.