Transhumanism: Memento Mori
Having invited guest speaker @David Pearce and watching his enthusiasm for what he advocates, I seem to find this kind of phenomenon more prevalent amongst the youth of the 2010-2020's to try and solve death.
There are quite a few British scientists that advocate some kind of strong desire to overcome death as some ill-fatum pervasive throughout humanity. Aubrey de Grey is well known around the world for his advocacy towards devoting funding to overcome aging.
I grew up thinking often about the death of my parents at a very young age. I, just as anyone else, have seemingly come to terms with the fact that death is unavoidable and has to occur one day.
Yet, given that we have ways to preserve ourselves better through antiaging techniques such as taking metformin or taking Lipitor for high cholesterol, I think it's entirely possible to overcome aging in a realistic manner.
My hope in this discussion is to invite David Pearce to the discussion or alternatively see if other members can overcome the anxiety of death and live a more rich and happy life.
What are your thoughts?
There are quite a few British scientists that advocate some kind of strong desire to overcome death as some ill-fatum pervasive throughout humanity. Aubrey de Grey is well known around the world for his advocacy towards devoting funding to overcome aging.
I grew up thinking often about the death of my parents at a very young age. I, just as anyone else, have seemingly come to terms with the fact that death is unavoidable and has to occur one day.
Yet, given that we have ways to preserve ourselves better through antiaging techniques such as taking metformin or taking Lipitor for high cholesterol, I think it's entirely possible to overcome aging in a realistic manner.
My hope in this discussion is to invite David Pearce to the discussion or alternatively see if other members can overcome the anxiety of death and live a more rich and happy life.
What are your thoughts?
Comments (16)
Maybe. I think it's extremely unlikely, but it could happen. It's tough.
Existing forever. What about the loved ones forever gone? Would we not eventually be bored beyond reason? To be fair, I think that those that always say that it is because we are finite that we are able to give meaning to life is not that clear to me.
I believe it was Wittgenstein that said this, but I don't remember. He said something like death is not something we experience in life, it is not an experience for us. Dying yes, but death, no. We live each moment assuming we are not going to die the next second.
There is something strangely timeliness about this attitude. Because if we did know exactly the time we had left, we might do things with extreme urgency, but few of us do.
As for getting rid of death anxiety. Only when I'm not in my right mind am I terrified of death. When I'm fine, it does not bother me rationally. I wasn't bothered before I came here. I doubt I'll be bothered afterwards.
For the time being we take what we have and live this incomprehensible "now".
Yeah, there's a lot of philosophical questions here to go about. I mean, life with respect to death or boredom, which are prominent topics in philosophy. I suppose my point would be to look at life as a limited thing, as it always is perceived and then go about making a decision as to whether one would want to prolong it or try as to.
Yes. All very hard questions. I guess one big problem is having people around which you identify with and ground your meaning or add substantial value to it. It would be better if they had the option too.
On the other hand, being put in such a place, by your own volition, to choose to end your life given immortality, would be a very devastating situation to be in.
Then again, maybe not in some cases. But it would be a problem for some and not a small one.
Shawn, thank you for the invite. Defeating death and aging is going to be insanely difficult, but transhumans will be quasi-immortal. Whole-body replacements ("head transplants”) should be possible in a decade or two. Cyborgisation will accelerate. I reckon the biggest technical challenge will be sustaining eternally youthful brains. Yet already, transplanting dopamine-producing nerve cells grown from a patient's own cells back into their brain can relieve motor signs and depressive symptoms in Parkinson’s disease. Aging but nominally healthy humans too could benefit from the enhanced mood, motivation and vitality conferred by implants. Where (if anywhere) do we stop? Thorny issues of the nature of enduring personal (non-)identity can't be dodged:
https://www.hedweb.com/quora/2015.html#parfit
That's interesting about identity. But, I surmise that due to regulations and oversight much of this will be limited to the ultra-rich initially and then slowly enter the market.
How fast or how long do you think humanity will switch over to transhumanism?
I would guess that next century most people will be transhumanists. Presumably, inhabitants of twenty-second century won't use the label "transhumanist" any more than modern humans call ourselves "trans-neanderthal".
If my scepticism about a machine "Intelligence Explosion" is unwarranted, then this timescale is too cautious:
https://www.hedweb.com/quora/2015.html#intelexplos
One of the concerns which I have about transhumanism is that if people are enabled to live for way beyond the natural lifespan is what effect this would have on the environment. Of course, even now we can have medication and surgery which extends our lives a lot longer than if they weren't available. However, if we were to extend it on a far greater level thre population would become so large and there would be such a demand for resources, that life may become unbearable. Also, we are in danger of running out of petroleum and, the lifestyles we are living are damaging the planet, especially the climate.
I am also unsure about ideas such as having head replacements. I have come across people having new heads put on their teddy bears, but I am not sure how it would work with humans. Of course, we are not used to it, and if we think about life as we know it, probably many aspects of our lives would have only have been science fiction about 50 to 100 years ago. But, in some ways, the ideas of transhumanism almost seem like trying to create the 'mythical' beings like the Nephilim and humans of Atlantis, who were said to live for about 300 years.
"And it will begin anew"? Don't you really mean "It will be finished forever"?
Nope. I mean it will begin anew. Not sure how that was unclear.
"Your scientists spend so much time wondering if they could do something they didn't stop to consider if they should." Jeff Goldblum: Jurassic Park. Very wise words.
It was quite unclear. Are you saying that your life will begin anew, at your death? I always thought that death was the end of life, and that is final.
I am not sure what to think about the idea of Atlantis. I know that many people believe it existed as a reality and many don't. Plato refers to it, as does Homer.
I wonder to what extent we could go back to a stage like Atlantis, and I do wonder how transhumanism would fit into the picture?Previous to coming across the ideas of transhumanism, I had read about junk DNA as untapped potential. I am inclined to believe that some of the ancient people were not simply primitive, but had power, knowledge and wisdom, which became lost.
I am fluent in English, passible in French, and can fumble in Spanish. My coworkers speak primarily one language only, as do most in the region I live in. I feel woefully under educated when I read these books, needing to constantly reference Google translate as I read. This, to me, suggests that we have lost linguistic ability over time, not improved upon it.
I am not saying that we have no accomplishments, just that I see no reason to assume that no one before us has accomplished equal, or greater, accomplishments.
Pearce has repeatedly refused to acknowledge my argument that science describes an understanding of reality that implies a systematic application of technologies necessary to a sustainable future. The genetic technologies Pearce advocates are logically subsequent to the technologies to harness heat energy from magma, to produce limitless clean electricity, to capture carbon, desalinate, irrigate, recycle - not least because without these technologies applied first, genetically engineered super-longevity could not be supported environmentally. It would be a disaster.
Pearce's "wouldn't it be cool" approach to science is the very anthesis of my argument that science and technology need to be applied systematically, and for the right reasons to achieve sustainable prosperity, and I reasonably expected mine to be the more palatable view, yet uncanny valley bio-tech nightmares do seem to be what the customer wants! Sustainability, not so much!