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The KCA and free will

Walter Pound April 21, 2021 at 08:18 3425 views 13 comments
Suppose that the KCA was sound is contra-causal free will undermined?

The premise "every thing that begins to exists has a cause" and the general assumption that nothing causes itself are what makes me wonder if the argument refutes libertarian free will.


This video argues that it doesn't undermine LFW but I am still doubtful about the arguments given.
https://youtu.be/qXfdeM2yukE

Comments (13)

fishfry April 21, 2021 at 08:38 #525288
I didn't watch the vid but I know the argument. I have three comments.

* Everything that "begins" to exist has a cause. So the conclusion that there must be an uncaused cause, which we name God, is baked in to the assumptions. But who caused God? How can there be an uncaused cause? Well in the argument, it's because God has always existed. God did not "begin to exist." So there's a bit of sophistry or word play at work.

* The negative integers ..., -4, -3, -2, -1 provide a model of causality in which (a) every event has a cause; and (b) there is no first cause. How do you know causality in the world doesn't work like that? It's turtles all the way down.

* Causation in the world is not at all like one thing causing another. Any event has many causes. A million different things had to happen for your parents to be born and meet and create you. Causality is more like a network and not like a linear chain. So the whole model of causality in the argument is wrong.

The argument is sophistry. It doesn't prove the existence of God. It's not even a coherent argument. It's wordplay. William Lane Craig makes a living off it but that's as far as it goes.

Quoting Walter Pound
Suppose that the KCA was sound


The argument is unsound. If we suppose it's sound we can conclude anything we like.
Gregory April 22, 2021 at 20:52 #525857
Reply to Walter Pound

Will doesn't come OUT of nothing. It moves independent of anything. That's the difference in abstract terms
Banno April 22, 2021 at 20:57 #525860
KCA? Knowledge Commercialisation Australasia?
Gregory April 22, 2021 at 20:59 #525862
Reply to Banno

Kant Cognized Accurately
Banno April 22, 2021 at 21:40 #525883
Reply to Gregory Kentucky Charred Artichoke?
Gregory April 22, 2021 at 21:41 #525886
Reply to Banno

That sounds good
Banno April 22, 2021 at 21:42 #525887
Reply to Gregory As in, on toast?
Gregory April 22, 2021 at 21:49 #525896
Reply to Banno

Well unlike this thread, artichokes are da bomb
Gregory April 23, 2021 at 15:22 #526187
Reply to Walter Pound

Craig says that we can't understand the world without believing in God yet we have to understand the world in order to first have a proof for God so he is clearly wrong
DrOlsnesLea April 23, 2021 at 19:02 #526273
Libertarian Free Will does not imply outside causality, only that it's anomalous how it all works out.
However, LFW is supported by the intuitions for that avenue of arguments.
180 Proof April 23, 2021 at 19:06 #526276
Reply to fishfry :100: :up:
fdrake April 23, 2021 at 20:39 #526312
Quoting Banno
KCA? Knowledge Commercialisation Australasia?


Probably Kalam Cosmological Argument.
Banno April 23, 2021 at 20:49 #526316
Reply to fdrake Oh, it's one of those threads.