Abandoning hope for the survival of the USA
Reply to T Clark
Reply to Zophie
As you may know, since 2014 I've been very concerned with a pervasive problem in the USA now called 'post truth.' I got in alot of trouble for being one of the first people to notice it was happening, at first to do with placing rights to property over rights to life in gun control. I was called unpatriotic, elitist, and repeatedly, stupid.
But despite new populist labeling of the phenomenon as defining truth by 'narrative; rather than by scoped logical statement, I continue to be sneered at, and even physically attacked for trying to do something about it. For the extent Americans have demeaned me, which has included armed assaults on my life for being a 'privileged white motherfucker' (and the majority of social media boards banned me just for bringing that up at all last summer) I really dont care to do anything for the USA's sake anymore.
This year, Congress can't even find a President responsible for violating his oath of office by not trying to protect the life of his own Vice President during an assault by his own followers.
Do you think I even wanted to be proven that my concerns were so correct?
Recently I made some observations on how the AAAS is stating that scientific theory defines facts about reality, rather than a representational model. People in this nation now choose to 'believe in' scientific theories like global warming just like already happened with evolution. There's many other examples I could cite, when there really shouldn't be any belief to do about it. One either should understand the model, or admit one doesn't have the ability to do so and accept authority on it.
But instead, in the USA, people choose to rely on 'intuition' from an inadequate foundation of knowledge. That has, as I have written before, had devastating effects on ethics, the legal system, and politics in the USA, and now the same thing is happening to science. Europeans don't have a problem with accepting the authority of scientists. It is a uniquely American trait which I attribute to being taught about the 'self-evident truth' for America's own authority to rule itself from a very early age, without even bothering to learn the self-evident truth originally derived from God. When Time Magazine ran a cover 'is Truth Dead?' without a photo, for the first time in its history to emphasize the question, I thought philosophy should have had something to say on it. Time Magazine said, they couldn't get an answer from philosophers, because they were too busy arguing with themselves as to what the answer to that question should be.
Similarly, no one else here has attempted to appreciate the significance of the problem or want to do anything about it. Meanwhile, the 'post truth narrative' in the USA has now reached its scientific community too. Having been sharing thoughts on this board for seven years now, starting with whether philosophers can provide a solution via education, I would have thought there would be more than two voices on it that don't just try to undermine my views on it and think there might be some personal responsibility of philosophers to do something about the destruction of what little about truth could rationally be said without doubt. The post truth narrative has now become systematic in the USA. After I suggested philosophical education as a solution, I was told that it just asking too much work of professors to try and teach any more philosophical ideas as mandatory course requirements than they already have to. At the time, I accepted the argument with appropriate respect. But I have to conclude it is only an excuse now.
So I'm moving to Europe as soon as I can, and I dont really have anything further to say on it, unless you actually can accord some respect to the effort I've made on this topic. I didn't need to try and do anything. It was just a sense of social obligation. So now you may have your own thoughts to yourselves, I dont want to interfere in your problems any further. You all have a nice day.
Reply to Zophie
As you may know, since 2014 I've been very concerned with a pervasive problem in the USA now called 'post truth.' I got in alot of trouble for being one of the first people to notice it was happening, at first to do with placing rights to property over rights to life in gun control. I was called unpatriotic, elitist, and repeatedly, stupid.
But despite new populist labeling of the phenomenon as defining truth by 'narrative; rather than by scoped logical statement, I continue to be sneered at, and even physically attacked for trying to do something about it. For the extent Americans have demeaned me, which has included armed assaults on my life for being a 'privileged white motherfucker' (and the majority of social media boards banned me just for bringing that up at all last summer) I really dont care to do anything for the USA's sake anymore.
This year, Congress can't even find a President responsible for violating his oath of office by not trying to protect the life of his own Vice President during an assault by his own followers.
Do you think I even wanted to be proven that my concerns were so correct?
Recently I made some observations on how the AAAS is stating that scientific theory defines facts about reality, rather than a representational model. People in this nation now choose to 'believe in' scientific theories like global warming just like already happened with evolution. There's many other examples I could cite, when there really shouldn't be any belief to do about it. One either should understand the model, or admit one doesn't have the ability to do so and accept authority on it.
But instead, in the USA, people choose to rely on 'intuition' from an inadequate foundation of knowledge. That has, as I have written before, had devastating effects on ethics, the legal system, and politics in the USA, and now the same thing is happening to science. Europeans don't have a problem with accepting the authority of scientists. It is a uniquely American trait which I attribute to being taught about the 'self-evident truth' for America's own authority to rule itself from a very early age, without even bothering to learn the self-evident truth originally derived from God. When Time Magazine ran a cover 'is Truth Dead?' without a photo, for the first time in its history to emphasize the question, I thought philosophy should have had something to say on it. Time Magazine said, they couldn't get an answer from philosophers, because they were too busy arguing with themselves as to what the answer to that question should be.
Similarly, no one else here has attempted to appreciate the significance of the problem or want to do anything about it. Meanwhile, the 'post truth narrative' in the USA has now reached its scientific community too. Having been sharing thoughts on this board for seven years now, starting with whether philosophers can provide a solution via education, I would have thought there would be more than two voices on it that don't just try to undermine my views on it and think there might be some personal responsibility of philosophers to do something about the destruction of what little about truth could rationally be said without doubt. The post truth narrative has now become systematic in the USA. After I suggested philosophical education as a solution, I was told that it just asking too much work of professors to try and teach any more philosophical ideas as mandatory course requirements than they already have to. At the time, I accepted the argument with appropriate respect. But I have to conclude it is only an excuse now.
So I'm moving to Europe as soon as I can, and I dont really have anything further to say on it, unless you actually can accord some respect to the effort I've made on this topic. I didn't need to try and do anything. It was just a sense of social obligation. So now you may have your own thoughts to yourselves, I dont want to interfere in your problems any further. You all have a nice day.
Comments (24)
Hmm... no. Here in Europe (I am from Spain) people give zero respect and acceptance to scientists. It is all about politics and money. We still waiting for Sputnik vaccine but the European Medicine Agency doesn’t want to. According to this context, you, in USA, are more free than us...
Quoting ernest meyer
Depends a lot of the country. If you go to the north-European countries (we call them the eagles of Europe) or Nordic ones it is fine and acceptable because they still have civilisation. But please don’t make the stupid error of coming to Mediterranean countries just for the good weather. We are probably going to disappoint you. If you consider come to my backwards ass country you have to keep in mind that you will have less freedom than in USA. Trust I been in both countries and I know what I am talking about. Mediterranean/south Europe are not paradise.
I find it deeply disturbing, and you have my greatest compassion in having to live with it.
Completely agree. Good point. I guess this is one of the worst inventions in our modern times. As you said, we have to do something because Twitter only knows agitate the masses causing them be so violent. Also this social media spread a lot of disinformation and fake news, this big issue here is that the people actually believe on it! I am so disappointed in my generation. It looks like there is not criteria and the new Cosmos or truth is Twitter.
But theses fatal issues are around the globe not only in USA.
Quoting ernest meyer
I lost all the hope in my own country and the citizens. I currently having a crisis of national identity.
This week, Supreme Court Justice Thomas said he's open to arguments that banning Trump from Twitter was a violation of free speech.
My stupidity just gets worse all the time.
There are too many reasons, but I think the most important facts are the following ones:
- most of the researchers are not motivated here because the government doesn’t invest in their works. Only a 1.2 % GDP of Spain goes to science. Yes, it is pathetic. So, when these researchers are called in USA, UK, or Canada earning more money and reputation they go there so we are lack of good researchers. This context allows to think that Spain doesn’t believe in science at all...
- our educational system is a completely garbage. The laws about education are made by the government and most of the time destroy everything. The salary of our teacher is weak so they do not go motivated to class neither the students. Most of the time the cultural or education criteria are not respected so most of the people decide to give up and leave school/university so they end up having bad low paid jobs as bartenders making a society full of precarious citizens.
- we still polarised since Franco died. There are scars that are not cured yet. In a divided society you cannot expect that much in terms of development.
Thankfully, we are part of the European Union. Without them, we would be completely lost.
Well I am thinking of Patmos in Greece, but my reasons are not conventional. It's only 5000 people, but it has operated much as an independent city state for ~1500 years due to it being the location of the cave where St. John the Divine wrote revelations. It was heavily fortified in the 700s against Turk invasion which was turned into a monastery in 1100AD, so it has mostly been left totally alone. The last attempt to change its affairs was when Athens tried to increase tourism there by putting a giant nude statue of Poseidon in the harbor. Within a week the locals got up at night and pushed it to the bottom of the harbor. Although it would've been easier to load it onto a ship from there, Athens did not try to retrieve it, and then, Athens did not try increasing tourist taxes too as it did in other places. So it seems a sensible choice. The local kids look like Alexander the Great and Helen of Troy. Rent is less the USA, it has broadband but expensive, and nice beaches. I dont know about its attitude to science, lol, maybe I can help with it, but there are other reasons in its favor. Maybe I can start a little aquarium or something there.
Quoting ernest meyer
actions speak louder than words!
I wish one day we can turn back to these days. The golden era of philosophy, ethics, science, development of individual, etc... we will never see another period like this.
What I meant was for someone who has nothing further to say on it, you have plenty to say :-)
One can find little hard-to-reach pockets of them, where the visitor traffic is constrained, but they've had to make concessions even so. For example, Patmos makes most its tourist money from monks and nuns visiting the monastery, but the locals let them stay in the hotels for free, if no paying tourists want the room.
But Justice Thomas is allied with Chief Justice Roberts in a GOP majority control of the Supreme Court.
So Justice Thomas basically said, if Trump took his ban from Twitter to court, Trump would win. Trump obviously will now, and the result is a foregone conclusion. More Trump tweets by 2024.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del,_Escher,_Bach
I suppose the gist is, in the context, you can abandon hope without leaving.
Id see it a different way. I just got confronted by more Trump tweets and picked up the girl.
Anyway Ernest don’t feel too down-hearted. Biden won, and I’m sure Trump is sinking, never mind the bleats from the conservative media. Things ain’t perfect but they’re a lot better than they were this time last year.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1107641772/
Sorry I can't be your partner in this.. project.