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Which belief is strongest?

Thinking March 25, 2021 at 17:04 8100 views 34 comments
Beliefs behave quite biologically and follow the "law of the jungle". I have a belief that has survived that jungle for a long time and it is "believe only that which empowers you most, everything else is used to instill fear in you and doesn't serve you in any way, even if it is true." What do you take o this? How do you build the best belief for the most empowered individual? Answer below.

Comments (34)

javi2541997 March 25, 2021 at 18:50 #514569
Reply to Thinking

Quoting Thinking
How do you build the best belief for the most empowered individual? Answer below.


I think depends of every human and their goals. First of all, we have to develop de ability of believe in. It doesn’t matter the objective but it looks like humans will always have something to believe in (for example: reduce climate change).
When we get this development, then we start to have beliefs. that follow us during our lives. Some stay for so long others can fall during the journey.

For example: I believe in the fact of reduce climate change (premise 1)
I have the belief of take action (premise 2)
—————————————————————-
Then, my beliefs are so powerful that I believe we can reduce it.
BC March 25, 2021 at 20:17 #514590
Reply to Thinking One part of this 'jungle' is that we can form beliefs in irrational, subconscious, and accidental ways. If one is born into a devout family, one will probably have religious beliefs installed early and deeply. Risk aversion vs. risk tolerance (something we don't choose to have) will shape beliefs. If one regularly gets beat up by a Norwegians gang, one will probably develop unfavorable beliefs about all Norwegians (as well one should).

It is debatable (and doubtful) that we can just 'choose our beliefs' from a menu of options. We can change beliefs, we can believe new things, and abandon old beliefs, but it is fairly hard to do it.
Tom Storm March 25, 2021 at 20:58 #514609
Quoting Thinking
"believe only that which empowers you most, everything else is used to instill fear in you and doesn't serve you in any way, even if it is true."


The issue I see with this statement is that it is open to many interpretations and comes with some odd assumptions from where I sit.

What does empowerment mean in your context? How do you know when something is empowering and when it is not?

What do you mean by 'everything else' - what are you turning away form? And what is 'instill fear'? With respect, it all sounds slightly paranoid to me. Who is instilling fear? And why? Or is this a by product? How do you determine the diving line between the empowering knowledge and that which is 'everything else'?

People's world views are often self-fulfilling. If they believe life is a jungle - that's what it will look like. If they think life is transcendent - that's what it will look like.

I personally have little interest in social Darwinist/law of the jungle models - what makes life interesting for me is not following a formula or a schema as much as is possible in the full knowledge that there are influences and factors beyond our control and knowledge. I am not looking to be empowered or enhanced by any particular worldview. I am mostly comfortable just being - with all the usual swirling mass of influences and constraints that might entail.



BitconnectCarlos March 25, 2021 at 21:11 #514614
Reply to Thinking

Quoting Thinking
"believe only that which empowers you most, everything else is used to instill fear in you and doesn't serve you in any way, even if it is true."


This is a terrible way of thinking.

Imagine you wanted to try MMA or Judo. It might "empower" you the most to think that you're the greatest Judoka or MMA fighter who ever existed, but this belief is going to be extremely detrimental to your development in that area.

See reality as it is, not according what empowers you the most.

This is hubris and it'll come back to bite you.
Thinking March 26, 2021 at 17:43 #514968
Reply to Bitter Crank Absolutely in neurophilosophy I learned that we will adopt the beliefs that are most rational for our knowledge and experience.
Thinking March 26, 2021 at 17:47 #514973
Reply to Tom Storm I want to know a belief that will empower myself in THIS life the most that is also rational enough that I can believe in it. Empower as in giving confidence and aptitude in a given individual. The opposite of that would be disempowerment which is instilling lack of confidence and fear in a given individual.

Thinking March 26, 2021 at 17:51 #514979
Reply to BitconnectCarlos Believing is a lot more than just "thinking" you are this or that. You have to truly feel. Truly believe that you are capable. and it must rational enough for your mind to believe in. The example you gave is very poor because it is actually a very limiting and disempowering belief if you look deeper into it.
unenlightened March 26, 2021 at 19:25 #515035
Quoting Thinking
How do you build the best belief for the most empowered individual? Answer below.


I am clever and you are stupid; you wouldn't understand.
Huh March 26, 2021 at 20:04 #515061
False beliefs are the strongest beliefs.
Pop March 27, 2021 at 04:39 #515290
Reply to Thinking

In Yogic logic you always create your own reality from the beliefs you hold to be true.

But a belief is not part of the set of 'what is true', :sad: Until you believe it to be! :razz:

So you have picked your beliefs wisely! :up:
Thinking March 27, 2021 at 05:28 #515294
Reply to Huh But why?
Thinking March 27, 2021 at 05:32 #515295
Reply to Pop I am in agreeance with you. Our collective reality and the belief that creates it our not capable of sustaining our planet for much longer so the cause (being our beliefs) must change. So, then, what causes these beliefs? How can we change them for a belief better suited for creation?
Thinking March 27, 2021 at 05:34 #515296
Reply to unenlightened That, my friend, is a very limiting belief because it prevents you learning anymore from what I have to offer. Everybody (both stupid and smart) has something to teach you that you do not know.
TheMadFool March 27, 2021 at 07:25 #515303
Quoting Thinking
believe only that which empowers you most, everything else is used to instill fear in you and doesn't serve you in any way, even if it is true.


[quote=TMF]Truth empowers you[/quote]

A person X believing something is hardly going have practical consequences without that belief being true. For instance, you would feel empowered - confident, influential - if you believed that you were the president of the USA but that wouldn't be real power if you actually weren't the US president, right? Much to your chagrin, you would find yourself in a mental asylum, constantly interviewed by men in white coats and that's definitely not what empowerment is.
khaled March 27, 2021 at 07:33 #515306
Sounds like as good a starting point as any. I used to operate by the opposite principle. “If you don’t want to believe it it is probably true so might as well rip the band aid off and believe it”. Can’t say it’s done me any good.

I don’t think discussions of this level really make sense. Your disposition towards what to believe and what to reject precedes any beliefs, so no one can really change your mind about it. If I tell you “Hey that’s a terrible way of thinking” then that counts as a disempowering belief and so you will reject it.

Similarly, if you were to attack my disposition then I would think “I want to believe he’s right, so I won’t”.

These “dispositions” are largely impervious to attack or discussion. And there isn’t really any set starting point when it comes to them, since they precede all argumentation and belief. They seem to be more like personality traits than beliefs.

Way I see it, this thread might as well be a discussion of which flavor of ice cream is best. No one is going to change their mind, because there is no objective answer.
Huh March 27, 2021 at 09:05 #515328
Reply to ThinkingJust cause you know something is true doesn't mean your right,
people are crazy.

If there exist something true in the world why don't more people know about it?
unenlightened March 27, 2021 at 10:46 #515360
Quoting Thinking
That, my friend, is a very limiting belief because it prevents you learning anymore from what I have to offer. Everybody (both stupid and smart) has something to teach you that you do not know.


Told you you wouldn't understand. If you are to teach me something, you will have to be less predictable.
baker March 27, 2021 at 14:34 #515438
Quoting Thinking
That, my friend, is a very limiting belief because it prevents you learning anymore from what I have to offer. Everybody (both stupid and smart) has something to teach you that you do not know.

This contradicts/undermines what you said earlier:
Quoting Thinking
"believe only that which empowers you most, everything else is used to instill fear in you and doesn't serve you in any way, even if it is true."




Thinking March 27, 2021 at 17:32 #515485
Reply to unenlightened Reply to Huh Reply to TheMadFool Reply to khaled What constitutes truth anyway? With a world full of disinformation how can we trust religion or science? Both of those fields are are either to subject to change or not enough to say they actually have truth. I feel you should trust only in yourself (you are your own best friend after all) for your own discernment of information. Use intuition if you have to. Nonetheless the truth should be decided by ones own self and soul. This current paradigm would be broken if we relied more on the things we can absolutely trust and if you don't trust yourself you need to change that in order to live your life with your own free will. This is my empowering belief. Answer below.
Thinking March 27, 2021 at 17:33 #515486
Reply to baker No contradiction here.
Thinking March 27, 2021 at 17:39 #515487
Reply to TheMadFool Look at Christianity for example. Many say they don't teach truth, however, Christianity is the most popular religion in the world and has one of the biggest impacts on history. I think it has a lot to do with their belief of utter disregardance for THIS life and THIS planet and reaping the temporary rewards as such. I want to know a belief that is very empowering that serves to cherish the life and planet here and now.
Huh March 27, 2021 at 17:46 #515491
Reply to Thinking staying alive is my belief and I don't think i can do it alone.
unenlightened March 27, 2021 at 18:37 #515504
[quote=Jesting Pilate]What constitutes truth anyway?[/quote]

It's what they crucify you for speaking.
TheMadFool March 28, 2021 at 02:14 #515652
Quoting Thinking
Look at Christianity for example. Many say they don't teach truth, however, Christianity is the most popular religion in the world and has one of the biggest impacts on history. I think it has a lot to do with their belief of utter disregardance for THIS life and THIS planet and reaping the temporary rewards as such. I want to know a belief that is very empowering that serves to cherish the life and planet here and now.


I don't know if it's true or not but all religions have that hard-to-ignore sense of desperation that characterizes a person who knows fae's doomed. No, not empowerment at all but a last ditch effort to escape from the inevitable...end [death & decay].
Pop March 28, 2021 at 03:32 #515672
Quoting Thinking
Our collective reality and the belief that creates it our not capable of sustaining our planet for much longer so the cause (being our beliefs) must change. So, then, what causes these beliefs? How can we change them for a belief better suited for creation?


We don't have a collective reality. We create our personal reality from the beliefs we hold to be true. We each have a personal reality - as is evidenced by the variety of understanding expressed in the comments of threads in this forum. This is the problem! If we all agreed then we could live in harmony!

But then life would have placed all its eggs in the same basket, which would be a problem if we were collectively wrong. :smile:

Quoting Thinking
I want to know a belief that is very empowering that serves to cherish the life and planet here and now.


I think this would be monism. Dualism is largely the mode of understanding that has led to the situation we are in today. I think a monist understanding, where everything is self created from information, energy, and matter would be a step toward universal relatedness. If we understood ourselves as being fundamentally related to each other, and to everything else on this planet, then it would be easier to empathize with, and thus respect everything else.

Buddhism is the closest to this mode of thinking. There is only one Buddhist country - Bhutan. They measure Gross national happiness, 75% of the country is nature reserve, and they are the only carbon negative country. There would be a substantial tradeoff of lifestyle however.
TheMadFool March 28, 2021 at 03:36 #515675
Quoting unenlightened
What constitutes truth anyway?
— Jesting Pilate

It's what they crucify you for speaking.


Keep it coming! :up:
TheMadFool March 28, 2021 at 03:39 #515676
Quoting Thinking
With a world full of disinformation


You forget that lies must mimic truths for them to be a force we must reckon with.
Thinking March 28, 2021 at 17:55 #515899
Reply to Pop To not think there is a collective of some kind seems somewhat absurd to me. I know that I create my own reality but I know I am not the only one creating my own reality. I am also not the only one participating to the destruction of this planet.
Thinking March 28, 2021 at 17:55 #515901
Reply to TheMadFool That is sadly the case today.
TheMadFool March 28, 2021 at 20:59 #515975
Quoting Thinking
That is sadly the case today.


Lies must dress up as truths, if not, lies are worthless.
TheMadFool March 28, 2021 at 21:21 #515980
Reply to Thinking I remember reading one of those psychiatry handbooks my friend, who's a doctor, used for exam preparations. Being a handbook the letters were really tiny but not unreadable. On the whole its format was familiar except for one feature - short accounts of real mental patients. One such story was about a lady whose house was near an airport. She suffered from delusions of grandeur and believed herself to be royalty. She had built her whole life around that delusion ignoring minor and major incidents that would've contradicted it. Sometime later she saw a very good shrink who managed to successfully treated her delusion - she realized that she wasn't royalty after all. Fastforward a couple of months and she promptly killed herself.

Interesting story, no? This woman was living a lie and the lie was keeping her alive. After she discovered the truth, life became unbearable enough to make her commit suicide. The falsehood/lie/delusion was what sustained her will to live. This ain't empowerment in any sense of that word but it sure does make your thesis - believe what empowers you - relatable.
Pop March 29, 2021 at 05:19 #516106
Quoting Thinking
To not think there is a collective of some kind seems somewhat absurd to me. I know that I create my own reality but I know I am not the only one creating my own reality. I am also not the only one participating to the destruction of this planet.


I think there is a collective of some kind, be it culture, or humanity, perhaps now social media, but we relate to it individually. As you say, you create your own reality from the beliefs you hold to be true, as does everyone else, either knowingly or unknowingly.

Quoting TheMadFool
This woman was living a lie and the lie was keeping her alive.


I think there is a little bit of this in all of us. Royalty is a little absurd, but given the weight of beliefs ( not facts ) creating human consciousness, it seems unlikely all the beliefs can possibly be true, so there is a certain amount of delusion in us all.
Thinking March 29, 2021 at 18:09 #516234
Reply to TheMadFool Same way visa versa eh?
Thinking March 29, 2021 at 18:12 #516235
Reply to Pop I see your point. The truth can be a hard pill to swallow.