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Is Learning How To Move On The Most Important Lesson In Philosophy?

synthesis March 17, 2021 at 17:10 10900 views 51 comments
I live in a small town in Southern California. The other day, my 21 yo step-son (who is Asian) was walking home and was the recipient of some very ugly xenophobic remarks from a young (white) man driving past. It happened so quickly that my step-son didn't have any chance to react and simply continued to the house. Understandably, he was quite upset and angry as these episodes (and much worse) have been becoming more common in areas where Asian-Americans live.

As I have attempted to counsel him on several occasions, I told him that learning to let things go (good and bad) is the most important lesson in life any of us can learn, that carrying feelings (particularly anger) can have devastating effects not only on the quality of your life, but the lives of those around you.

I then told him one of my favorite stories that helped me get through a particularly difficult time in my own life.

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Back in Tang dynasty China (618 - 907 AD) there was a very famous Zen monastery where many monks practiced meditation day and night. Every other week, the monk in charge of cooking would go to the neighboring village to stock-up on supplies not available to the nearly self-sufficient monastics.

On a particular trip, the cook, who had been a monk for over 50 years and was needing assistance to carry the supplies, brought along a novice, a young man of about 20 years. On their return, a storm came up out of nowhere and torrential rains began to wash-out the well worn path.

About half way back to the monastery, the younger monk suddenly stopped as he noticed a very beautiful young woman standing before a rushing stream that had cut through the pathway. The older monk seeing her dilemma quickly put down his packages, walked through the washed-out area, bowed, picked-up the young woman and carried her across the washed-out pathway. The woman bowed in return and continued on her journey.

The novice monk just stared in disbelief at the entire spectacle and after the young woman was well on her way turned to the older monk and said, "How is it that you broke one of our most sacred vows by not only looking at but carrying such a beautiful young woman across the washed-out path?"

The cook turned to the young monk and said, "I see you carry her still."

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I would be interested in hearing stories or ways that others have dealt with episodes in life that have been particularly difficult from which to move-on, as I do believe this is the most important lesson we can learn from our journey into philosophy and through life.

Comments (51)

javi2541997 March 17, 2021 at 17:46 #511446
First of all, I am sorry of what your son experienced but he is lucky of having an intelligent parent who provides wisdom to learning more about life. I going to share with you another story that help me in my journey through life.

When I was born back in 1997 I was dying because my left lung was not working good so I was losing a lot of oxygen. The doctors quickly transferred me to another room that even my mum didn’t get a chance of having me in her arms. The following days were obnoxious. I was fighting to survive while ,y parents were asking for an expensive loan to pay an oxygen from United States specialised in these kind of situations (back in the day Spain wasn’t so developed in science...)
After fighting against all odds I survived. All the wires I have connected in my head to provide me oxygen made a notorious scar. So when I was starting to go to school I was receiving a lot of bullying from other kids... I remember getting frustrated a lot and getting back home with tears because the other kids didn’t understand how difficult was that period of my life. Then my mum told me this philosophical quote from the Spanish proverbs: A palabras necias, oídos sordos in English means “to foolish words, deaf ears”

We always will experience disgusting situations where we can feel bad about ourselves. The intelligent way is not taking it with importance and forget it the most quickly way we could. There are a lot of ignorant people who doesn’t have empathy but instead of answering them with the same ignorance is better act as a deaf looking like we didn’t hear anything about.
baker March 17, 2021 at 19:39 #511494
Quoting synthesis
As I have attempted to counsel him on several occasions, I told him that learning to let things go (good and bad) is the most important lesson in life any of us can learn, that carrying feelings (particularly anger) can have devastating effects not only on the quality of your life, but the lives of those around you.

That's just nihilistic quietism.
BC March 17, 2021 at 19:57 #511506
Reply to synthesis Whether, and how quickly, one can 'let things go' and move on depends, to some extent, on how our personalities work. Some people are 'grudge holders' -- they don't forget bad things--not because they want to, they just can't do otherwise. Other people are more 'water off a duck's back'. They are able to forget, or move on with ease--not because they are virtuous, but because that's just the way they are.

Some depressed people perseverate -- 'repeat or prolong an action, thought, or utterance after the stimulus that prompted it has ceased'. Dwelling on bad events is a feature of depression. When depression passes they stop perseverating. (Not that you or you son is depressed - this is just a general observation.)

What happened to your son is most regrettable. Fortunately he is 21 and not 12, so he'll be able to put racist crap in context. All sorts of bad things happen to people: we live in a society where increasing economic and social pressures distort how people behave towards each other, and whether it is at work or on the street (or even at home) social friction has increased a lot. We definitely should not ignore it, nor should we think about nothing else.

Tom Storm March 17, 2021 at 19:59 #511509
Quoting synthesis
learning to let things go (good and bad) is the most important lesson in life any of us can learn, that carrying feelings (particularly anger) can have devastating effects not only on the quality of your life, but the lives of those around you.


That's close to a key principle in Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy. The beliefs and responses you hold in relation to an event can do more to harm you and those around you than the actual event. The popular maxim that we can't control what others say to us but we can control how we react is also similar.
Banno March 17, 2021 at 20:09 #511521
Reply to synthesis I have a similar story to move kids past things that are obsessing them - an ill parent, an incident of bullying. I tell them that they will carry the problem, but they have a choice of holding it in their hands so that they cannot do anything else, or putting it in their pocket or backpack so that they can get on with the stuff before them.
baker March 17, 2021 at 20:16 #511528
Quoting Tom Storm
The popular maxim that we can't control what others say to us but we can control how we react is also similar.

Another popular maxim says that we teach others how to treat us; and that if they treat us poorly, it's because we have taught them to do so.
Tom Storm March 17, 2021 at 20:17 #511531
Quoting baker
t's because we have taught them to do so.


That's one of my favorite maxims, Baker. But you can't teach the whole world.
baker March 17, 2021 at 20:21 #511533
Quoting Banno
I have a similar story to move kids past things that are obsessing them - an ill parent, an incident of bullying. I tell them that they will carry the problem, but they have a choice of holding it in their hands so that they cannot do anything else, or putting it in their pocket or backpack so that they can get on with the stuff before them.

But this doesn't address the "big picture". There are several assumptions in "putting things aside" and "moving on". If these assumptions aren't elucidated and if they aren't the right ones, "putting things aside" and "moving on" can do more harm.

For example, the assumption can be "I should just move on, let it go, because I am worthless". If this is one's assumption for "putting things aside" and "moving on", how is "putting things aside" and "moving on" helping one??
baker March 17, 2021 at 20:22 #511534
Quoting Tom Storm
That's one of my favorite maxims, Baker. But you can't teach the whole world.

And this exonerates you when others treat you poorly?
Tom Storm March 17, 2021 at 20:29 #511541
Reply to baker You are aggressive. I am going to move on.
baker March 17, 2021 at 20:37 #511544
Reply to Tom Storm Oh, the irony.
Tom Storm March 17, 2021 at 20:38 #511547
Reply to baker I thought you'd like it.
Ciceronianus March 17, 2021 at 20:46 #511555
Quoting synthesis
I would be interested in hearing stories or ways that others have dealt with episodes in life that have been particularly difficult from which to move-on, as I do believe this is the most important lesson we can learn from our journey into philosophy and through life.


It's a very Stoic point of view. As Epictetus said, there's only one way to happiness, and that is to cease worrying about things beyond the power of our will.
Tom Storm March 17, 2021 at 20:49 #511556
Quoting Ciceronianus the White
As Epictetus said,


A key influence on Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy as it happens.

Epictetus:

“Men are disturbed not by things, but by the notions they form concerning things.”
Banno March 17, 2021 at 21:01 #511560
Reply to baker so if it doesn’t suit your purpose, don’t use it.
180 Proof March 17, 2021 at 21:21 #511562
Reply to synthesis It was so long ago now, early teens or before, when I – a bullied black boy on the streets of NYC – encountered

The obstacle is the path. (Zen proverb)

then some time later studying Latin & the history of Rome
[quote=Marcus Aurelius, Meditations]The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way.[/quote]
which, among other (sisyphusean) coping lessons & jazz, has stood me in good stead ever since. The shock of white supremacy only wounds to the degree one expects to remain immune from its vicious sting; one must align one's expectations with the reality – which in your stepson's case is – that for many (though not all) whites, being Nonwhite makes him as "game" for hatred & abuse as I am.

The racist murders here in the Atlanta metro last night have had me on the phone with old, Asian-American friends of mine in NYC & Boston commiserating and trying to exorcize these savagely hungry ghosts ... which lead me to post this today.

Pardon my presumption but I'd tell your stepson, synthesis, (paraphrasing Angela Davis) It's not enough not to be racist, one has to actively be anti-racist – even if you're not ready to fight, be ready to support those fighters who are ready, so that you've braced yourself in the storm.
Saphsin March 17, 2021 at 22:21 #511576
Reply to 180 Proof Asian women have especially been targeted because of the way they've been fetishized in American imagination. It's a travesty of multiple perversions. Biden also hasn't helped with his anti-China policies (despite condemning the racist violence on the streets, institutionally he maintain Trump's FBI director targeting Chinese students) so there's a nationalistic angle to it also.

[The research released by reporting forum Stop AAPI Hate on Tuesday revealed nearly 3,800 incidents were reported over the course of roughly a year during the pandemic. It’s a significantly higher number than last year's count of about 2,800 hate incidents nationwide over the span of five months. Women made up a far higher share of the reports, at 68 percent, compared to men, who made up 29 percent of respondents. The nonprofit does not report incidents to police.

Russell Jeung, professor of Asian American studies at San Francisco State University and the forum’s founder, told NBC Asian America that the coalescence of racism and sexism, including the stereotype that Asian women are meek and subservient, likely factors into this disparity.

“There is an intersectional dynamic going on that others may perceive both Asians and women and Asian women as easier targets,” he said.]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/there-were-3-800-anti-asian-racist-incidents-mostly-against-n1261257?fbclid=IwAR1OM54qu1LU5ycBWEaHUQG7hh1QroVK48-VH17yigMW4FOASpkPN1Zppa8
180 Proof March 17, 2021 at 23:06 #511592
Reply to Saphsin :sad: I hear ya.
Changeling March 17, 2021 at 23:09 #511595
Quoting Saphsin
Biden also hasn't helped with his anti-China policies


Biden's policies are anti-CCP not anti-China, and he's doing great work on that front.
synthesis March 17, 2021 at 23:22 #511598
This point of this post was not to point out that bad things happen, instead, it was to suggest that once the appropriate response is made, moving on as quickly as is possible is key.

Racism is simply another measure of how far humanity needs to go, but to suggest that one race is more guilty than another shows a severe lack of historical perspective. Racism has always been an equal opportunity social pariah and manifests itself according to who happens to be the prevailing power.

History is replete with slaughter after slaughter after slaughter...
Saphsin March 17, 2021 at 23:42 #511607
Reply to The Opposite You didn't address the example I mentioned, the McCarthyist targeting of Chinese students.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-06-13/the-u-s-is-purging-chinese-americans-from-top-cancer-research

https://www.npr.org/sections/president-biden-takes-office/2021/01/21/959271490/biden-to-keep-wray-on-as-fbi-director

As for foreign policy, I don't agree with it at all. We don't need more militarism to maintain U.S. dominance in Asia when we're at the precipice for climate change and in need for cooperation on shared goals.

https://rosalux.nyc/us-china-progressive-internationalist-strategy/

https://newrepublic.com/article/160992/biden-china-climate-yellen-blinken-austin?fbclid=IwAR3IemQQTD4lsQvyJwS8YQERBj9xp9RsP2AkcvZlu1e5BguwxE2x6pJqL4U

https://peterbeinart.substack.com/p/bull-in-a-china-shop
Changeling March 17, 2021 at 23:49 #511608
Quoting Saphsin
You didn't address the example I mentioned


I'm not obligated to.Quoting Saphsin
We don't need more militarism to maintain U.S. in Asia


So you're in favour of an authoritarian and repressive regime gaining more territory, power and influence on the global stage?
Saphsin March 17, 2021 at 23:54 #511616
Reply to The Opposite I gave an argument with an example. If you’re not going to dispute it, you’re talking to yourself. That’ll be all.
Changeling March 18, 2021 at 00:03 #511620
Reply to Saphsin you're also giving your personal opinion; which I'm directly responding to.
Saphsin March 18, 2021 at 00:04 #511621
Reply to The Opposite I mentioned maintaining the racist FBI director and then provided sources. If you think it’s unconvincing, then say so. “I’m not obligated to” to my request to address the argument is trolling and you’re an asshole.
Changeling March 18, 2021 at 00:13 #511632
Quoting Saphsin
you’re an asshole


Cheeeers for the ad hom. :up:

Wray has a 10 year tenure btw

Saphsin March 18, 2021 at 00:19 #511634
FBI directors are allowed to be fired despite tenure.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2020/12/02/report-biden-will-keep-chris-wray-as-fbi-director---if-trump-doesnt-fire-him-first/
Saphsin March 18, 2021 at 00:22 #511636
It was only last year when Biden made a jingoistic advertisement about “the Chinese” when saber rattling about competition with China.

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-ad-china-trump-coronavirus-racist-xenophobic-2020-4
Changeling March 18, 2021 at 00:29 #511637
Quoting Saphsin
FBI directors are allowed to be fired despite tenure.


Yeah I don't know why I mentioned that.

Why are you so against Biden?
Saphsin March 18, 2021 at 00:32 #511640
Reply to The Opposite Why are you making it about Biden in general? I’m talking about this area where he’s causing harm and criticizing it.
Changeling March 18, 2021 at 00:57 #511648
Quoting Saphsin
Why are you making it about Biden in general


I'm not concentrating properly because I'm working at the moment and I just want to besmirch the CCP online
Saphsin March 18, 2021 at 01:20 #511652
Reply to synthesis Apologies for leading the thread on a tangent, I’ve become enraged due to the recent anti-Asian shootings.

Like the other comments, I generally encourage Epictetus’ maxim quoted to temper your emotions regarding what you can’t control and focus what you can control. Stoicism takes learning and training however so I’m not sure it is helpful to quote these lines to your step-son, that would be insensitive. It’s better to break it down into a plausible message.

The Stoic teaching for instance does not imply you can’t have righteous indignation against injustice. The Stoic teaching is about shifting attention towards productive thoughts, it isn’t about deadening your emotions. One has to acknowledge that they were hurt by racism, and the best way to respond to it is to channel that into something else rather than remaining in continuous agony. It’s similar to what’s taught to alleviate anxiety in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. One can’t control the immediate fact others in the community have racist thoughts and are acting in a discriminatory way, but you can join in solidarity with anti-racist activists who are bringing the issue to public attention. I personally found out that sharing my pain among those who feel similarly prevents me from going insane. There's something about the nature of social interaction and empathy that helps lift the emotional burden a bit. And that this is a collective problem to be solved rather than individual circumstance to be endured.
Tom Storm March 18, 2021 at 01:48 #511658
Quoting Saphsin
Apologies for leading the thread on a tangent, I’ve become enraged due to the recent anti-Asian shootings.


I understand. :pray:

Quoting Saphsin
One can’t control the immediate fact others in the community have racist thoughts and are acting in a discriminatory way, but you can join in solidarity with anti-racist activists who are bringing the issue to public attention.


Yes! As most of us know, much racism and stupidity we hear comes to us in ways that we cannot directly respond to or fight - in media reporting, drive by abuse, ignorant slogans written against the wall, whatever. Hence the importance of finding ways to build resilience to hate and unpleasant discourse.

synthesis March 18, 2021 at 02:23 #511672
Quoting Saphsin
Apologies for leading the thread on a tangent, I’ve become enraged due to the recent anti-Asian shootings.


No problem. Racism is a super-charged issue and I used it only to give an example of how attached people can become to issues that arise in their lives. But whether it is racism, divorce, death, violence, or any significant loss, this is what we all must face in our lives. Understanding how to best confront these kinds of issues would be a better conversation for our nation to share than much of the divisiveness that is heard pretty much everywhere anymore.

I appreciate your comments, and others, as well.
synthesis March 18, 2021 at 02:40 #511679
Reply to javi2541997 Reply to Bitter Crank Reply to Tom Storm Reply to Banno Reply to Ciceronianus the White
Think about how much time we have all spent replaying the tragic scenes of our lives. And of course, the not so tragic ones, as well. Perhaps my favorite quote of all-time is Mark Twain's, "Some of the worst things in my life never happened." Do these ten words not say a great deal concerning the peril of living one's life in fear?

Being able to rapidly move-on in life is a precious gift and should be taught by those who are aware everywhere. Imagine the anguish that could be saved if most people could develop this capacity.
Tom Storm March 18, 2021 at 02:49 #511683
Reply to synthesis I think so too. Take care.
javi2541997 March 18, 2021 at 05:12 #511713
Quoting synthesis
Being able to rapidly move-on in life is a precious gift and should be taught by those who are aware everywhere. Imagine the anguish that could be saved if most people could develop this capacity.


Yes I think so too. As you said this practice should be taught to everyone because there are some persons who is difficult to them avoid painful situations they experience along their lives.
Ciceronianus March 18, 2021 at 14:36 #511863
Quoting Saphsin
The Stoic teaching for instance does not imply you can’t have righteous indignation against injustice. The Stoic teaching is about shifting attention towards productive thoughts, it isn’t about deadening your emotions.


Quite right. Also, Stoicism encourages active participation in social/political matters--Roman Stoicism, in any case. That's why some Roman emperors, like Domitian, banished or executed Stoic philosophers and Senators who were Stoics and opposed imperial conduct.
gikehef947 March 18, 2021 at 17:10 #511921
Reply to synthesis
A Soviet commissar entered the home of a geography teacher and said to him: "Starting today, your house belongs to me and you will serve me. Do you agree?" The teacher said nothing, but from that day on he prepared and served the food, washed the clothes, went shopping and did not say a single word. The years passed and the geography teacher still didn't speak. One day, the commissioner suffered a heart attack. The teacher wrapped it up, buried it, responded and said, "No."
baker March 20, 2021 at 09:13 #512514
Reply to Banno
I would like you to explicate those assumptions. Like I said:

"There are several assumptions in "putting things aside" and "moving on". If these assumptions aren't elucidated and if they aren't the right ones, "putting things aside" and "moving on" can do more harm.

For example, the assumption can be "I should just move on, let it go, because I am worthless". If this is one's assumption for "putting things aside" and "moving on", how is "putting things aside" and "moving on" helping one??"


It is my assumption that there is no need to specifically "put things aside" and "move on", but that "putting things aside" and "moving on" occur naturally as a side-effect of holding certain assumptions about oneself. Such as "Doing my work is my highest priority" or "Doing X is beneath my dignity".

Merely focusing on "putting things aside" and "moving on" can move one away from some problem, but not automatically toward a valued direction in life. While moving toward a valued direction in life takes care of everything else.
(It's similar to the difference between running from danger and running to safety.)
Banno March 20, 2021 at 09:21 #512517
Reply to baker The user shall determine the suitability of the product for its intended use and assumes all risk and liability whatsoever in connection therewith.

So if it doesn’t suit your purpose, don’t use it.
baker March 20, 2021 at 14:06 #512582
Reply to Banno
*sigh*
Talk about consumer philosophy ... life as a matter of consumption ...
Yohan March 20, 2021 at 15:48 #512615
Quoting baker
Merely focusing on "putting things aside" and "moving on" can move one away from some problem, but not automatically toward a valued direction in life. While moving toward a valued direction in life takes care of everything else.
(It's similar to the difference between running from danger and running to safety.)

I think this is a good caveat. It reminds me of the book The subtle art of not giving a F. I think it says something about finding something worth giving an F about, and lesser things you will care about less.
Sounds true. I think the more unhappy people are, the more trivial things have the potential to bring them down.
If you know who you are and your worth, then what could an insult do. You have to be insecure or ignorant about yourself to be offended in the first place.
As Man's Search For Meaning says, when we have meaning we can tolerate suffering. I think it says one way to have meaning is find a goal or role that is meaningful to you.

Maybe one could say the most useful skill in life is the ability to discern the valuable and unvaluable. Or what would you say is the most useful skill?
Deleted User March 20, 2021 at 15:56 #512617
Reply to synthesis I live in the Netherlands and have had to deal with a lot of racism and xenophobia from a young age one. One time it got so bad I got really scared and anxious. I learned to talk about it and looked up a video by Desmond Tutu on forgiveness. Also, my parents have helped me out a lot. We have to respect the natives and the natives have to respect us. It's a give and take.
synthesis March 20, 2021 at 16:27 #512627
Reply to TaySan Thank you for your response. One of the most important things about forgiveness is that when you forgive others, you forgive yourself, as well.

The other factor that I found helpful was the realization that 99.999...% of what people do is about themselves. Once you come to this understanding, you can assume responsibility for your own life and lose the victim mentality that has stunted the development of so many young people over the past couple of decades.
baker March 21, 2021 at 11:35 #512941
Quoting synthesis
One of the most important things about forgiveness is that when you forgive others, you forgive yourself, as well.

But is it really forgiveness, or is it superiority and contempt?

I find that often, when people say they have forgiven, what they actually did is that they found a way to feel superior to the other person or to despise them and feel good about it.
180 Proof March 21, 2021 at 13:06 #512960
Quoting synthesis
One of the most important things about forgiveness is that when you forgive others, you forgive yourself, as well.

Yes, of course, ...
[quote=Paulo Coelho]Forgive but do not forget, or you will be hurt again. Forgiving changes the perspectives. Forgetting loses the lesson.[/quote]
A mantra for survivors (instead of victims), though I've occasionally succumbed to Otto von Bismarck's barbed maxim: forget, but do not forgive! which is an indulgence I'm confident I've outgrown.
Deleted User March 21, 2021 at 13:41 #512964
Reply to synthesis You're welcome. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to share
synthesis March 21, 2021 at 16:13 #513020
Reply to baker I guess that one way of looking at it.
synthesis March 21, 2021 at 16:18 #513025
Quoting 180 Proof
Forgive but do not forget, or you will be hurt again. Forgiving changes the perspectives. Forgetting loses the lesson.
— Paulo Coelho
A mantra for survivors (instead of victims), though I've occasionally succumbed to Otto von Bismarck's barbed maxim: forget, but do not forgive! which is an indulgence I'm confident I've outgrown.


I've always tried to keep in mind that you can never understand what motivates others, so forgiving them is about not carrying around anger and hated that will only create negativity with your own life. This is why forgiving others is actually forgiving yourself.
180 Proof March 21, 2021 at 17:36 #513034