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Problem of Induction Help

Darkneos March 05, 2021 at 00:17 5300 views 17 comments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence

Mostly the Proof and Evidence section. I'm lost on why the problem is such a big deal and whether they mean science doesn't tell us anything about the world?

Comments (17)

Deleted User March 05, 2021 at 01:56 #505893
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Darkneos March 06, 2021 at 03:13 #506346
Reply to tim wood But the link itself says that we don't, or rather can't make inductions.
Deleted User March 06, 2021 at 03:26 #506350
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jgill March 06, 2021 at 03:41 #506355
Quoting Darkneos
I'm lost on why the problem is such a big deal


It's not. Seems like common sense.
TheMadFool March 06, 2021 at 08:31 #506468
The principle of uniformity of nature: The future will resemble the past.

This apparently simple sentence is the foundation for the sciences. It would be great if we could prove it and the proof is: The future resembles the past

In short the argument for the principle of uniformity of nature goes like this:

1. The future resembles the past

Ergo,

2. The future resembles the past

That's a circulus in probando if there ever was one. This is the problem of induction.
norm March 06, 2021 at 08:53 #506477
.Quoting Darkneos
I'm lost on why the problem is such a big deal and whether they mean science doesn't tell us anything about the world?


IMO, it's a fascinating glitch. No one can help trusting induction, so in that sense it's not a big deal. I think I understand Hume, and I was dazzled at first. We apparently have an animal faith in the uniformity of nature, and that's it. It's impressive that Hume could see this and reveal it to others. But it didn't change anything besides making me feel a little more clever than before. If you keep reading about it, it'll suddenly click. The argument people instinctively make against it is circular, as sketched above.

'Of course the future will be like the past, because it always has been!'
frank March 06, 2021 at 12:06 #506521
Quoting Darkneos
Mostly the Proof and Evidence section. I'm lost on why the problem is such a big deal and whether they mean science doesn't tell us anything about the world?


It crashes both empiricism and rationalism. Neither can account for our confidence in natural laws, so it takes aim at foundations.
TheMadFool March 06, 2021 at 12:32 #506533
It might be worth noting that there's another side to the problem of induction viz. the problem of generalization from a set of particulars - the black swan is an embarrassment to science.
Dharmi March 06, 2021 at 18:06 #506655
Reply to Darkneos

Alright, science deals with particular sets of phenomena. Right? So, it deals with particular objects or things I see or perceive. For example, the phone, the bits and pieces of the phone, the weight, mass, charge, spin of the particles of the phone etc. etc.

Okay, there is no "universal" law that is holding these particular bits and pieces together. There are just the bits and pieces. The "whole" phone is just the sum total of the bits and pieces.

That's the problem of induction.

We don't have any experience of the universe in it's sum total, just the bits and pieces. We only assume we have a coherent picture of the universe in it's sum total, because of the regularity of those events. So every day we see that we can walk in a straight direction, so we assume that we can continue to do so. But there is no "thread" connecting the "pearls" of those bits and pieces, those events, all in-and-of-themselves. That's our inference.

Unless, you believe, like I do, that universals, natural laws, etc. exist. But the Modernist tradition is basically unanimously nominalistic. For reasons that are understandable, but nevertheless.

In other words, the problem is that we need to assume a "universal" constancy of a kind to be able to do science or live in the world at all, yet in pure empirical terms, no such universal can be known to exist. Because, by definition, empiricism only deals with particular objects and not universals.

Dunno if that made sense or not, but I tried.

Peace.
Caldwell March 06, 2021 at 18:32 #506665
Quoting Dharmi
In other words, the problem is that we need to assume a "universal" constancy of a kind to be able to do science or live in the world at all, yet in pure empirical terms, no such universal can be known to exist. Because, by definition, empiricism only deals with particular objects and not universals.


Assumptions are good. They don't violate any philosophical or scientific principles. The issue lies in equating assumptions with the universals. Philosophically, we are given a license to talk, heck argue, about universality of things. Scientifically, we earn the right to make assumptions, or inferences, using experimentations and observations. Phenomena in nature works with regularity.
Dharmi March 06, 2021 at 18:42 #506675
Reply to Caldwell

That's fine. But what does it mean to 'assume' a law of nature that isn't actually real?

That's the crux of the problem of induction and the problem of universals as well. We certainly observe that the natural world works uniformly and regularly, but we can't 'prove' that, 'justify' it. It's not like we 'see' the law of nature that indicates that uniformity and regularity.
Caldwell March 06, 2021 at 22:34 #506831
Quoting Dharmi
But what does it mean to 'assume' a law of nature that isn't actually real?


That isn't actually real? In what way the law of gravity isn't real?
Dharmi March 06, 2021 at 22:38 #506834
Reply to Caldwell

Well, I don't say it isn't. I say it is, but pure empiricism cannot justify the claim that laws of nature are truly real. That's the problem of induction.

I'm not a pure empiricist. Pure empiricism is based on nominalist philosophy, which rejects the idea of natural law.

To make it clearer:

You've never seen the law of gravity. You've only seen particular cases and time periods where gravity has operated. That's the crux of the problem. How do you go from particular cases to a universal law?
Caldwell March 06, 2021 at 22:43 #506839
Quoting Dharmi
I say it is, but pure empiricism cannot justify the claim that laws of nature are truly real. That's the problem of induction.


First, I think we need to nail down what we're talking about. Are we talking about scientific empiricism, or metaphysical empiricism, which might be called pure empiricism. We know there is gravity. We also know what happens without gravity.
Dharmi March 06, 2021 at 22:45 #506842
Reply to Caldwell

Right, but the problem is justification. What we know is, gravity functions and operates. What we don't know, and what the problem of induction is, is whether there is a law underlying that function. That's the problem. There's no "string" holding together the "pearls".

If you say there;s a law, then where is it? That's the problem.
Darkneos March 07, 2021 at 02:50 #506956
Reply to tim wood
[Much] of what contemporary epistemology, logic, and the philosophy of science count as induction infers neither from observation nor from particulars and does not lead to general laws or principles. [Induction] was understood to be what we now know as enumerative induction or universal inference; inference from particular instances:
Darkneos March 08, 2021 at 06:20 #507533
This is what I am referring to about the link ^