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What's the biggest lie you were conditioned with?

OneTwoMany February 14, 2021 at 11:05 7350 views 50 comments
Growing up, it was my family constantly reminding me that the world outside is a 'bad place'. On the contrary, I learned some of my best values after I left home for college and later for work. I attribute some of my worst experiences to family and I'm still working on myself to erase the negative impressions created during my growing years.

Comments (50)

fdrake February 14, 2021 at 11:26 #499639
The biggest lie I was taught is more of an attitude than a falsehood.

The lie has the function of convincing someone pulled by the hideous strength of life's currents that thrashing their arms and legs in the roil counts as "swimming" and thus helps them stay afloat. The deeper truth is that the lie must nevertheless be believed on pain of drowning.
Jack Cummins February 14, 2021 at 12:00 #499645
Reply to OneTwoMany
I would say that the most ridiculous lie children are taught is the idea of Father Christmas. You might think that I am being ridiculous but I do believe that it is a damaging idea. Personally, my parents only went along with it superficially and I stopped believing it at about 4 years old because I was aware that our family home fireplace was blocked off by a piece of wood and that it was not possible for Father Christmas to be everywhere at once. However, when I started school everyone else in my class believed in the idea and I didn't say anything because they needed to think for themselves and it seems that some children believe in this until about age 7. Children often seem let down when they discover it is a lie.

The reason why I think that the idea is not good is that I think it encourages people to adopt foolish foundations and illusions. It is rather different from religious beliefs because they are held genuinely, whereas Father Christmas is a nonsensical lie and does not have any benefit in helping children's understanding of reality.
TheMadFool February 14, 2021 at 12:06 #499646
The biggest lie would be one that we don't know is a lie. The better the deception, the less likely that it'll be discovered. Ergo, if there's a biggest lie, no one knows of it.
Outlander February 14, 2021 at 12:42 #499653
I think I was 5 or 6 when my grandmother passed. One day around that time I was in the front seat of the truck with my mother. I wondered what the "hazard light" button was. She told me that's what you push to "make us fly straight up into the sky so we can go visit grandma" .. or something. Something came up, I think, and I was just left sitting there pondering that for a good few minutes. Why couldn't it? Planes fly, they both have engines and operate in ways that are just as good as magical to the understanding of a 6 year old. I ended up believing that for a solid half-decade before around 10 or so I was with friends and we were stuck in traffic where everyone was complaining. I suggested "why don't we just push the fly button" .. after I explained it to them, the adults smiled at me, and the kids there just started laughing. Man. Come to think of it I turned out alright in comparison.

Fortunately my father always chose to give me alternate perspectives, a healthy dose of reality, I suppose. To the chagrin of my mother, we'd always watch "America's Most Wanted" every Sunday at 9. I'd always be coming up with "what would I do if..." scenarios as a result.

I disagree with the idea of Santa Claus being akin to a "cruel, counterproductive lie" though. Depending on the circumstance, the occasional glimmer of magic and wonder in an otherwise mundane world can make for happy times, at least early on. Besides, depending on where you live, the possibility of a strange old man breaking into your house and attempting to offer you presents in exchange for you to "be a good boy and listen" is very real. Holidays are weird like that. On Halloween, you dress up your kids in shiny outfits and send them off to stranger's homes unsupervised with the implied rule of eating anything they wish to give you. On Easter, if you happen to be in the woods on an Easter Egg hunt, if you ever run into a strange man in a bunny costume you "won" and need to follow him to wherever he may lead you. Etc. Jeez what a world.
Isaac February 14, 2021 at 13:28 #499660
I'd probably have to agree with

Quoting fdrake
The lie has the function of convincing someone pulled by the hideous strength of life's currents that thrashing their arms and legs in the roil counts as "swimming" and thus helps them stay afloat. The deeper truth is that the lie must nevertheless be believed on pain of drowning.


...as the biggest. So the second biggest

That the things people say actually reflect in one-to-one correspondence some picture of the world as they believe it to be.

Related - that the things people do actually reflect a one-to-one relationship with some picture of wordly mechanism by which those actions have the desired effect.
counterpunch February 14, 2021 at 14:41 #499674
Flying cars and robot butlers!
Uglydelicious February 14, 2021 at 14:42 #499675
Reply to Jack Cummins I agree that Santa is a truly bizarre lie we tell children. My nieces are toddlers and their grandfather dressed as Santa and came out to see them. They sobbed and screamed for fear and discomfort. Santa is a stranger who breaks into your home, eats your sweets, and leaves you with presents but would dump coal on your floor if you were naughty... I don’t know how damaging it is, but it is a truly bizarre lie, mostly because we gaslight children’s reality. People could easily teach Santa as a fiction, but instead they legitimately convince children that he is real and they need to behave to please him because he is always watching them.. it’s just so strange..
baker February 14, 2021 at 14:52 #499677
Quoting OneTwoMany
Growing up, it was my family constantly reminding me that the world outside is a 'bad place'.

The opposite: I was expected to believe, on pain of physical punishment, that the world is a good place.
baker February 14, 2021 at 14:53 #499678
Reply to TheMadFool Like they say, The greatest trick that the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist.
synthesis February 14, 2021 at 15:53 #499685
Quoting OneTwoMany
I attribute some of my worst experiences to family and I'm still working on myself to erase the negative impressions created during my growing years.


Eventually everybody grows-up and gets over it.
OneTwoMany February 14, 2021 at 16:30 #499692
Reply to synthesis your mature response doesn't answer the question I put forth. To quote you, I hope everyone does grow up.
synthesis February 14, 2021 at 16:33 #499693
Reply to OneTwoMany We live in a country of adult children, so it's not looking too good in that regard.

Parents are what they are, but at some point you have to take responsibility for your own behavior.
OneTwoMany February 14, 2021 at 16:38 #499695
Reply to synthesis we also live in a country where people can't read. Where am I blaming my behavior on anyone? Take your flaming somewhere else. If you're bitter, see a therapist.
fdrake February 14, 2021 at 16:47 #499698
Quoting Isaac
That the things people say actually reflect in one-to-one correspondence some picture of the world as they believe it to be.


:up:

Another one for the pile: the immediacy of revelation/self evidence/unmediated cognition. The it "just seems this way to me" brigade vs the wealth of evidence for the self as the internal documents of a vast bodily bureaucracy.
Deleted User February 14, 2021 at 16:50 #499700
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
synthesis February 14, 2021 at 16:58 #499702
Quoting tim wood
"Grows up and gets over it." A fine therapeutic outcome. I think what you mean is "survive." Not to be confused with recovery in any sense.


Recovery from what?
synthesis February 14, 2021 at 17:02 #499703
Quoting OneTwoMany
Where am I blaming my behavior on anyone?


Quoting OneTwoMany
I attribute some of my worst experiences to family and I'm still working on myself to erase the negative impressions created during my growing years.


Negative impressions? Life is tough, my friend. Who promised you a picnic?
OneTwoMany February 14, 2021 at 17:05 #499704
Reply to tim wood If attention is what he craves, that's exactly what we deny him. Poor sucker.
Deleted User February 14, 2021 at 17:06 #499706
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
synthesis February 14, 2021 at 17:06 #499707
Quoting OneTwoMany
If attention is what he craves, that's exactly what we deny him. Poor sucker.


We? You put this out there. Answer the questions.
OneTwoMany February 14, 2021 at 17:10 #499708
Reply to tim wood couldn't agree more. I've seen documentaries of him and family. His older brother left the business as he was apparently opposed to their ways. Ended up taking his life. Meditation helps. So does good company.
OneTwoMany February 14, 2021 at 17:16 #499711
Reply to Jack Cummins that's 'tradition alright. Children are excited over fairytales, dragons, wizards and talking animals, in books or in cartoons. Tbh, some of the cartoons out there now can be terrifying :D
Deleted User February 14, 2021 at 17:17 #499712
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
fdrake February 14, 2021 at 17:18 #499713
Reply to tim wood Reply to OneTwoMany Reply to synthesis

Stop pissing on each other for pissing on each other.
Elegans February 14, 2021 at 17:47 #499722
Your are a nothing if you alone. But that's not true;)
OneTwoMany February 14, 2021 at 17:54 #499725
Reply to Elegans I agree. There is a saying 'If you don't enjoy spending time by yourself, you're probably in bad company'.
Caldwell February 14, 2021 at 20:38 #499753
"What's the biggest lie you were conditioned with"

Intelligence is set.
Isaac February 14, 2021 at 20:58 #499768
Quoting fdrake
the immediacy of revelation/self evidence/unmediated cognition. The it "just seems this way to me" brigade vs the wealth of evidence for the self as the internal documents of a vast bodily bureaucracy.


Yes.

In fact I'd add 'the self' itself. As in 'true to yourself, 'not being yourself'... As if there were some sacred fixed point from which certain feelings rebelliously deviate.
Jack Cummins February 14, 2021 at 21:06 #499776
Reply to OneTwoMany
It is hard to distinguish between lies and misconceptions. I was taught how Mary gave birth to Jesus, as in the virgin birth, and I somehow thought that was how all children were conceived. When children at school told me the facts of life, I refused to believe, until they showed me it in writing, in a book.
180 Proof February 14, 2021 at 21:24 #499788
The biggest lie? Candidates ...

• caste (i.e. social/class hierarchy)
• gender (i.e. sex roles/hierarchy)
• race (i.e. color/ethnic hierarchy)
romantic love :yawn:
• non-technological progress (i.e. utopias)
• The Truth (e.g. "the media", "the absolute", "the one")
• moral / just deserts
• ghosts (i.e. souls, disembodied subjects, "afterlife")
• "prayer works" ...
• magic (i.e. magical thinking e.g. "Santa Claus" (for adults aka "God")) ... hope, providence, destiny
Valentinus February 14, 2021 at 23:09 #499840
Reply to OneTwoMany
This is an interesting question. I need to check if I am taking part in some weird Russian parlor game where I will be humiliated by what I say. Oh, no way to know.

I think the biggest lie I was told by my parents only became known to me when I became a parent, namely:

One can hide one's shame from your children.

That isn't to recommend that one saddle your progeny with what you most deeply regret but let them know the person doing the regretting. I am visible. I was brought up to think that was an option.
Leghorn February 15, 2021 at 00:42 #499871
@Valentinus. But a parent CAN hide his or her shame from the children...at least while the parent lives...

My aunt had an affair with the barber, and produced her only son, but, despite evidence that came out surreptitiously over the years, she denied it to her dying day, and the son only learned of it after his mom was dead.

When he did learn of it he attempted to contact his half-brothers in the barber’s, his dad’s, family: they accepted him coolly...

The moral is, what your mama wished to remain hidden, so should you wish.

Valentinus February 15, 2021 at 01:01 #499876
Reply to Todd Martin
I get that. One can hide incidents. I will too. But the effort is visible. The pretense of being free of what your children will suffer is the lie.
BC February 15, 2021 at 01:24 #499882
Quoting OneTwoMany
I attribute some of my worst experiences to family and I'm still working on myself to erase the negative impressions created during my growing years.


Of course! Family is where we all come from, and we are approximately as screwed-up as they are. Good, bad, and indifferent genes have been biologically transmitted; good, bad, and indifferent ideas and practices have been socially transmitted.

It's not so much that I was conditioned by so many lies, as it took a long time to figure out that much of what I thought I knew was actually false--mistaken, inaccurate, mythical, misleading, wrong, and so on. For example, you can be anything you want to be isn't a lie as much as a myth--not to be taken literally. Actually, nobody ever told me that--expectations were too low. So that was one lie I missed out on.

I seemed to have absorbed a lot of "non-reality" growing up. Hollywood reality, maybe. Or religious magic. Villager idiocy. Whatever it was, all that crap, I took as TRUE whether it was intended that way or not. A lifetime has been required for decontamination.

Santa Claus was good while he lasted, but the hope for some sort of imaginary gift-giver, some sort of sugar-daddy, lingers on.
khaled February 15, 2021 at 01:47 #499883
That the more difficult something is to believe the more “genuine” or “correct” it is.

A morphing from “Truth can hurt” to “What hurts is the truth”.

Don’t know if anyone else shares this.
Cobra February 15, 2021 at 02:18 #499890
Reply to OneTwoMany

I have been skeptical since I left the womb. I trust nothing, and have always been extremely questioning as a child. Even down to religion I was kicked out of Sunday school and put on suicide watch at 5 years old for questioning the teachers too much. Even after vigorous attempts to hammer these lies into me, they never added up. It just never "clicked". I just sat still and did my studies like a good girl i.e., point of lease resistance for social efficiency and counterproductive conflict.

I was not really absorbing this stuff in any interesting way. I would just go home and read the opposite and what I wanted.

I was lucky being private schooled and going to a Montessori school started before I was 3 years old, so you can imagine "religious thought" didn't do well against my thinking style, and Montessoris unique style of learning emphasized on independent, freethinking thought, knowledge-seeking, child curiosity/free will and critical thinking; I blame that. But now I am a distrusting dismissive avoidant with no track record, so it hasn't all be good.

OneTwoMany February 15, 2021 at 02:54 #499898
Reply to 180 Proof yes, these are some of those universal ones.
Outlander February 15, 2021 at 03:33 #499915
Quoting OneTwoMany
Growing up, it was my family constantly reminding me that the world outside is a 'bad place'.


Good Lord. What foolish people. Don't they know the media makes up famine, starvation, violence, rape, and war? Thank God you survived that deathtrap of a family. How I cannot even begin to imagine. They truly had your worst interests at heart.

Quoting OneTwoMany
On the contrary, I learned some of my best values after I left home for college and later for work.


You mean, you began to discover life and perhaps had the best time of your life in your college years after being kept safe and sound and able to do so? Eh sounds like a bit of a stretch to me but even astronomical odds offer an even it would seem.

Quoting OneTwoMany
I attribute some of my worst experiences to family and I'm still working on myself to erase the negative impressions created during my growing years.


Well surely life is just a rose garden of pleasure and opportunity, people being open with you and not strangers, friends, or acquaintances bound by the implied social contract and/or law must have been purposefully tormenting you for no purpose other than to do so. They must have done so willfully, stashing their billions and near infinite love, wisdom, and understanding offshore, just so you could suffer just a bit more with each passing day.

Who knows maybe I'm right about everything I said. One or more posts here would seem to lend credence.
creativesoul February 15, 2021 at 03:38 #499916
In the States at least...

All it takes to become successful and financially secure(rich, if you like) is hard work, saving your money, and obeying the laws. Many people are told that one, to this day.

Another...

...with liberty and justice for all!

That one, is perhaps one of the worst.
TheMadFool February 15, 2021 at 03:42 #499918
Quoting baker
Like they say, The greatest trick that the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist.


I sympathize with that sentiment, another name for the devil being the deceiver, one par excellence in all probability and hence, the greatest lie being the devil's successful concealment of faer own existence.
OneTwoMany February 15, 2021 at 08:14 #499995
Reply to Valentinus
The pretense of being free of what your children will suffer is the lie.

Well put.
OneTwoMany February 15, 2021 at 08:18 #499996
Reply to Outlander This is the Philosophy forum, not the Christian forum. If you can't answer the topic on this thread, move on.
OneTwoMany February 15, 2021 at 08:20 #499998
Reply to creativesoul
with liberty and justice for all!

I agree.
OneTwoMany February 15, 2021 at 08:25 #500000
Reply to Cobra being a free thinker can be hard with groups or cabals that keep out anyone that doesn't conform. It's easy to label independent thinkers as trouble makers or day dreamers. Find your own tribe and you will grow.
OneTwoMany February 15, 2021 at 08:30 #500001
Reply to Bitter Crank
Of course! Family is where we all come from, and we are approximately as screwed-up as they are. Good, bad, and indifferent genes have been biologically transmitted; good, bad, and indifferent ideas and practices have been socially transmitted.

True.

Santa Claus was good while he lasted, but the hope for some sort of imaginary gift-giver, some sort of sugar-daddy, lingers on.

Lol
baker February 15, 2021 at 10:06 #500009
Quoting Isaac
In fact I'd add 'the self' itself. As in 'true to yourself, 'not being yourself'... As if there were some sacred fixed point from which certain feelings rebelliously deviate.

I think this "just be true to yourself" (BTW, funny how people love to quote that line from Hamlet, when it's said by the one of the dumbest characters in the play) is not a lie, but a domination strategy and a self-defense strategy, and I suspect that people are aware of this.



Quoting Bitter Crank
Santa Claus was good while he lasted, but the hope for some sort of imaginary gift-giver, some sort of sugar-daddy, lingers on.

The Santa Claus story is an age-appropriate strategy to instill in children this hope, so that they can later on become sugar daddies and sugar mamas themselves (such as to their parents, ideally), and to not have qualms about looking for a sugar daddy or sugar mama and to use such relationships to their advantage.
It's corporate primig for toddlers!
baker February 15, 2021 at 10:18 #500011
Quoting khaled
That the more difficult something is to believe the more “genuine” or “correct” it is.

A morphing from “Truth can hurt” to “What hurts is the truth”.

Yes. If it doesn't hurt, it ain't the truth.

I was even told once, and I remember this verbatim: A truth that doesn't condemn the one who speaks it is no truth at all.
khaled February 15, 2021 at 10:39 #500016
Reply to baker 2+2=4 doesn't hurt.

"I should kill myself" is about the most hurtful belief I can think of, that makes it true?
baker February 15, 2021 at 10:58 #500020
Reply to khaled Sarcasm travels poorly online.

I was agreeing with you. I don't know why some people believe that if it doesn't hurt, it isn't the truth.

Personally, I believe that the truth can never hurt.
There is a certain feeling that can come with a sobering realization or discovery, but that feeling is not hurt.
khaled February 15, 2021 at 12:26 #500034
Reply to baker Quoting baker
Sarcasm travels poorly online.


Ha! Case in point, I tend to think that the more difficult thing to believe is the case. I miss sarcasm often (because taking it seriously is the more hurtful option) especially online. Even though I’m very sarcastic myself.