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The Motivation for False Buddha Quotes

baker February 13, 2021 at 18:34 7375 views 26 comments
I don't know of any other religion where the words of its founder or prominent figure are so often misrepresented, or just plain invented, in Humpty-Dumpty-when-I-use-a-word-it-means-exactly-what-I-choose-it-to-mean manner as Buddhism.

A website, called Fake Buddha Quotes is devoted to setting things straight.


How did this state of affairs come about?

What is it about Buddhism that seems to invite so much ignorant but confident misrepresentation or even invention?

How is it that so many people feel no qualms about ascribing words to the Buddha for which they have no textual basis to assume he actually said those things or something like them?

Comments (26)

Present awareness February 19, 2021 at 23:17 #501329
Quoting baker
no textual basis


Simply because something is written in text, does not make it true! It becomes laughable when a self proclaimed expert, like the one in the Fake Buddha Quotes posted above, deems himself an authority on what was said and what was not said, simply based on ancient text, which are impossible to verify.
You are much too attached to your ideas Baker, and so you suffer when people disagree with you.
Buddha was right, when he observed that “attachment, is the ROOT cause of all suffering”.
Streetlight February 20, 2021 at 00:10 #501337
A mixture of ignorance, opportunism, and no small dose of bigotry that would attribute to 'Eastern' belief any old claptrap. That said people attribute all sorts of shite to Socrates or Plato or Nietzsche or Einstein or MLK too.
Metaphysician Undercover February 20, 2021 at 00:16 #501340
What did Jesus say? I am son of God, or, son of Man?
Wayfarer February 20, 2021 at 01:26 #501352
Reply to baker partially it’s cultural appropriation - Buddhism is seen as a ‘cool’ tradition without all the pushy dogmatism of Christianity. Very popular in new-age circles.

Partially because people generally associate Buddhism with tolerance and ‘being relaxed’. You don’t want to be attributing bogus quotes to people who are going to put a bomb under your car for so doing.

And partially because even many genuine quotations from the Buddha are elliptical and open to interpretation. Even some of those listed as ‘fake’ are arguably the result of poor translation rather than deliberate obfuscation.
Pierre-Normand February 20, 2021 at 02:13 #501358
"My name isn't 'The Buddha'; it's 'Siddharta Gautama', dammit!"
-- The Buddha
baker February 20, 2021 at 19:08 #501517
Quoting StreetlightX
That said people attribute all sorts of shite to Socrates or Plato or Nietzsche or Einstein or MLK too.

And to ordinary people.

On that note, I was once talking to a woman online, she must have been about 50 at the time, who genuinely did not understand what a quote is. To her, interpreting and quoting was one and the same thing. (I discovered that after talking to her a bit.)

I don't understand how someone can confuse or conflate the two, but the experience with that woman convinced me that it's possible.

So strange.
Elegans February 20, 2021 at 20:27 #501542
Reply to baker

I think the bible is also often misrepresented. But oke that's not the point
Ross September 08, 2021 at 11:13 #590659
Quoting baker
How is it that so many people feel no qualms about ascribing words to the Buddha for which they have no textual basis to assume he actually said those things or something like them?


Anyway what does it matter whether the Buddha really said them. If you're reading a self help book do you really care what or who the author was if you find the content good for you and helpful in your everyday life . I happen to find the quotes from Buddhism and the videos about it such as Einzelgangers channel and I don't care whether the Buddha said exactly everything that's in them . Ancient philosophy has to be updated to apply to 21st society. Buddha also didn't have the benefit of modern science and psychology. We do. So it would be ridiculous not to update Ancient philosophy in the light of modern psychology and learning.
javi2541997 September 08, 2021 at 11:27 #590663
What is it about Buddhism that seems to invite so much ignorant but confident misrepresentation or even invention?


As @StreetlightX pointed out so accurate previously, I also think is opportunism with a mix of marketing. Back in the 1960's and 1970's was so common travel along Asia (Nepal and India specially) because Buddhism was cool and take drugs like ecstasy or trippies was funny. You end up having ignorant tourists visiting countries with a complex religion and customs. Also, it is even scary how marketing was part of it making and selling t-shirts or even tattoos. The famous music band called [i]Nirvana[/i] was clearly part of it. But you can find out many other examples like the hippy wave.
Apollodorus September 08, 2021 at 11:53 #590668
Quoting baker
What is it about Buddhism that seems to invite so much ignorant but confident misrepresentation or even invention?


I think in the first place this may have to do with the fact that it is impossible to establish with 100% certainty which quotes can be attributed to the historical Buddha.

Second, the Buddhist texts form a large corpus that few Westerners bother to read.

Third, the phenomenon of fake or self-appointed "gurus" that probably started the minute gullible Westerners with spare cash began to take an interest in Indian religions.

Fourth, Buddhist teachings may also have been distorted for political reasons.
TheMadFool September 08, 2021 at 12:01 #590670
I feel it's a case of poor memory and the Buddha's spotless image as a preeminent sage. Someone who recalls a quote but not the person to whom the quote belongs to will try faer best to remember who spoke/wrote those words. As must be the usual, the first wise person that comes to mind is, well, the Buddha.

This phenomenon occurs with significant frequency in other areas. For example, if you're the only member in the family fond of cake and it so happens that, say, your mother discovers the cake she left on the table is gone, you are the prime suspect. Your reputation as a cake-lover will automatically lead people to associate missing cakes with you.
baker September 09, 2021 at 20:20 #591387
Quoting Apollodorus
I think in the first place this may have to do with the fact that it is impossible to establish with 100% certainty which quotes can be attributed to the historical Buddha.
/.../
Fourth, Buddhist teachings may also have been distorted for political reasons.

Certainly, there are text-critical issues, as with any text, and esp. with older ones. I am in no way suggesting that the authorship and authenticity of the Pali Canon (or any other religious scripture) is a matter that can easily be resolved, a trifle.

But the issue is this: If someone says "The Bible says X", or "The Koran says Y", it is perfectly normal to expect them to provide a reference to the Bible or the Koran, respectively, by name of book, chapter and verse. But this standard of reference is so often ignored when it comes to Buddhism. And with such confident ease!

(Granted, I've observed similar with Hindus and the Vedas: They confidently insist that the Vedas say this or that, but couldn't provide a reference if their life depended on it. Not to mention how deeply offended they feel that someone would request an actual textual reference, rather than just taking their word for gold.)

Second, the Buddhist texts form a large corpus that few Westerners bother to read.

And possibly don't even know about.
Janus September 09, 2021 at 21:53 #591450
Reply to baker Since Gautama wrote nothing, how many of his earliest attributed "sayings" are already misattributions?
baker September 09, 2021 at 22:30 #591477
Reply to Janus Do read my post above yours.
baker September 09, 2021 at 22:31 #591479
Quoting Janus
Since Gautama wrote nothing, how many of his earliest attributed "sayings" are already misattributions?


Does that mean that we can attribute to him whatever we want to?
Janus September 09, 2021 at 23:12 #591496
Quoting baker
Do read my post above yours.


Quoting baker
Does that mean that we can attribute to him whatever we want to?


I don't say people can attribute whether they want; well actually they can, but we don't have to take them seriously. Obviously all we know of what he might have said is set out in the early Buddhist texts. Even if some or much of those consist in misattribution,they are the earliest sources and thus more likely to be accurate than later texts such as the Mahayana and Vajrayana texts which may very well contain many more extrapolations, which amount to misattributions.

Modern misattributions are obviously even further removed both temporally and culturally, but nonetheless a misattribution is a misattribution, and unfortunately since he wrote nothing we have no way of determining just what is and what is not misattributing what was said by Gautama. That said, if we take the earliest texts as authoritative then we should be able to clearly identify anything which does not tally with those.
Wayfarer September 09, 2021 at 23:19 #591499
Reply to Janus there's a fair amount of uniformity in the Pali literature. The history of its composition is that after the Buddha's final Nirv??a, there was an assembly of monks, chaired by the Buddha's attendant, Ananda, who dutifully recited and codified the collected teachings of the Buddha, which began to assume the form that has been handed down to this day, the 'tipitaka', or 'three baskets' (so called because when they were finally written down, they were inscribed on palm-leaves which were carried in baskets). But consider that in pre-modern times, many such texts were only ever stored in the memories of its exponents, sometimes for millenia before being committed to writing, so the fact of there being verbal or aural traditions doesn't necessarily imply that they were corrupted in transmission.

In modern form, printed and bound, the Pali canon comprises a large set of volumes:

User image

By comparison with what is in those texts, it's really not that hard to spot fake Buddha quotes.

Incidentally, there's a good essay in Tricycle magazine about recent discoveries of the provenance of the very early Buddhist texts. This article was included in the course materials in my course in Buddhist Studies. The gist of it is, there is probably no single authoritative version of the Buddha's teachings, in that there are parallel re-tellings of many of the suttas (sayings) in various dialects - no 'single source of truth' has been unearthed. Even despite that, however, posters admonishing you to 'live fully in the present moment' can be safely assigned to the domain of 'fake Buddha quotes'.
Janus September 09, 2021 at 23:30 #591503
Quoting Wayfarer
Even despite that, however, posters admonishing you to 'live fully in the present moment' can be safely assigned to the domain of 'fake Buddha quotes'.


Maybe that's why Lin Chi reportedly said " If you meet the Buddha, kill him" or why it was Huineng (if memory serves) who referred to zen as a "special transmission outside the scriptures". According to my own extensive reading of zen texts the essence of zen teaching is precisely to live fully in the present moment. Which is not to deny that certain practices and observances are advocated to that end.
Apollodorus September 09, 2021 at 23:37 #591504
Quoting baker
Granted, I've observed similar with Hindus and the Vedas: They confidently insist that the Vedas say this or that, but couldn't provide a reference if their life depended on it. Not to mention how deeply offended they feel that someone would request an actual textual reference, rather than just taking their word for gold


Correct. The stories they sometimes come up with are .... well, hard to believe. Or if you do believe them then be sure to take a large grain of salt with it. Perhaps Buddhists tend to be more down-to-earth.

Personally, I've only read the Dhammapada, Visuddhimagga, some Jataka stories, and the Tibetan Book of the Dead. (I may read more in my next life if I have the time :smile: ) But if there were any “Buddha quotes” that I found interesting or important, I would definitely try to check the sources before I believed them.

Come to think of it, perhaps Buddhists tend to be more relaxed about non-Buddhists misquoting their texts and don’t rise up in arms every time it happens. Possibly, they also are less inclined to protest as they have less influence in the West than Christians, Muslims, and Jews.
baker September 11, 2021 at 21:54 #592703
Quoting Janus
I don't say people can attribute whether they want; well actually they can, but we don't have to take them seriously.

I'm just completely amazed by their confidence, and I wonder what role it plays in spiritual development.

Quoting Janus
Modern misattributions are obviously even further removed both temporally and culturally, but nonetheless a misattribution is a misattribution, and unfortunately since he wrote nothing we have no way of determining just what is and what is not misattributing what was said by Gautama. That said, if we take the earliest texts as authoritative then we should be able to clearly identify anything which does not tally with those.

Quoting Wayfarer
The gist of it is, there is probably no single authoritative version of the Buddha's teachings, in that there are parallel re-tellings of many of the suttas (sayings) in various dialects - no 'single source of truth' has been unearthed.


Of course. If you study the early texts and discuss them with other people who have also studied them, then, even though you might be working with different translations (or even different versions of the Tipitaka), still, there characteristically emerges an understanding that contextualizes or transcends the differences.
Outlander September 11, 2021 at 21:59 #592704
Who is this man? Sounds like a humble man of peace. Unlikely he survived long let alone was able to manage his legacy. Basically unless you met the guy, anyone's guess is as good as the next.
baker September 11, 2021 at 22:04 #592707
Quoting Ross
Ancient philosophy has to be updated to apply to 21st society. Buddha also didn't have the benefit of modern science and psychology. We do. So it would be ridiculous not to update Ancient philosophy in the light of modern psychology and learning.


Before doing so, it seems it would behoove to first look into what ancient philosophy actually said, so that we know what exactly it is that we're updating/improving.
Janus September 12, 2021 at 00:18 #592768
Ross September 12, 2021 at 10:10 #592994
Quoting baker
Before doing so, it seems it would behoove to first look into what ancient philosophy actually said, so that we know what exactly it is that we're updating/improving.


That's true. There have been many scholars who have tried to discover what the Ancients actually said. On the other hand the Ancients got many many things wrong or their ideas would not be appropriate for a modern 21st century liberal democracy for example although Aristotle's Ethics is the basis for contemporary Virtue Ethics his views on women and slavery are incompatible with present day views. As regards the Buddha he was teaching at a time when nearly everyone believed in spirits and religion, and existence in a previous life but for a lot of people nowadays they don't believe. So he needs to be updated.
baker September 12, 2021 at 16:31 #593164
Reply to Ross So you have thoroughly studied and realized pa?iccasamupp?da and found it lacking?

Do tell us how you improved on it!
Ross September 12, 2021 at 17:36 #593196
Quoting baker
So you have thoroughly studied and realized pa?iccasamupp?da and found it lacking?

Do tell us how you improved on it!


I don't know what that is. I don't have an in depth knowledge of all of Eastern philosophy.
What I'm saying is that 21st century society is so different and far removed from ancient times that we can't just literally take the words of someone 2000 years ago . It has to be adapted to modern culture. All ages throughout history have done that. Even the ancients would have had their own interpretation of earlier texts.