What is the value of a human life for you?
I don't know why, maybe it's the pandemic, maybe it's the state of the world, or maybe there just isn't a good reason, but this question has been interrupting my thoughts lately. So we see the number of people dying everyday, and we'll see something like 323 people died in X country and 78 in Y country. We get so accustomed to looking at these numbers that we seem to overlook the fact that we don't even know that many people in our personal lives.
I mean if one person dies who you happen to be very close to, dies, then your world is going to be in a bad way for a really long time. Sure, death is part of the contract of life, as it were. Yet if out of those 78 people that died, "only" 4 were family members or close friends, you might be completely destroyed. Yet many of us who read international news and political events know that this pandemic is mild compared to what's happening in Yemen or in many other parts of the world where people die needlessly. Like those who die from malnutrition or lack of money and so on.
So all this makes me question: what value does a human life have? I'm not, of course, speaking in monetary terms, but in a very general manner. Who knows how many of those who died might have been the next great scientist or novelist or anything else. I mean, we'll die and sure our family and friends will mourn us, but outside of that small group of people the world goes on as it should. But just the sheer number of death makes me want to ask this question, even if I don't have an answer for it.
The best I can come up with is something like the value of a life is the value you assign to it. But this feels like it leaves out plenty.
In any case, I wanted to ask people here what they thought of such a general question. What is the value of a human life for you?
I mean if one person dies who you happen to be very close to, dies, then your world is going to be in a bad way for a really long time. Sure, death is part of the contract of life, as it were. Yet if out of those 78 people that died, "only" 4 were family members or close friends, you might be completely destroyed. Yet many of us who read international news and political events know that this pandemic is mild compared to what's happening in Yemen or in many other parts of the world where people die needlessly. Like those who die from malnutrition or lack of money and so on.
So all this makes me question: what value does a human life have? I'm not, of course, speaking in monetary terms, but in a very general manner. Who knows how many of those who died might have been the next great scientist or novelist or anything else. I mean, we'll die and sure our family and friends will mourn us, but outside of that small group of people the world goes on as it should. But just the sheer number of death makes me want to ask this question, even if I don't have an answer for it.
The best I can come up with is something like the value of a life is the value you assign to it. But this feels like it leaves out plenty.
In any case, I wanted to ask people here what they thought of such a general question. What is the value of a human life for you?
Comments (36)
I would say that the value of any human life should be held very highly because each unique person is like a universe. Perhaps, in an overpopulated world the value of each individual is not considered as being that significant. But that might be a reflection of the values of consumer material industrial society.
However, there is also the other matter of human beings seeing themselves as the top of the hierarchy of living beings, to dominate and exploit the natural world. This valuing is questionable.
I believe that consciousness itself is subject to a special type of reciprocity relationship, such that its own nature is ultimately determined by the nature of the rights it ascribes to others. So for me, it is only by ascribing an ultimate value to the sacrosanct quality of the life of the other that I realize the value of my own life. i.e. view others as ends in themselves, never as means.
I think thats exactly what value human life has. Everyone picks and chooses what life is valuable, most people don’t care about vast swaths of life, from bacteria to insects. Others care about animals of all kinds, many just the cute ones. Some only really care about human lives and of course others only care about certain human lives. Some only care about their own lives but everyone picks and chooses, everyone assigns their own value to it.
Personally I think life's value should be judged according to that lifes merits and if certain criteria arent met (like if someone just goes around killing and spreading misery) then I can’t say I put any value on that at all.
Certain religions should be credited for an entirely psychological benefit. That benefit being, when you are told you have been created willfully and intentionally, it is a blessing personally bestowed upon you by someone or something much greater than you, and it can and may be taken at any given moment, therefore you should be thankful for each day when you wake up and before you lie down, it can be notably effective in softening the blow and both short and long term psychological effects of losing someone very close to you, even horribly. Then again the same could be said with a bit of spin on any form of belief or "comparison" I suppose. Pragmatic, nihilistic, and even combinations of both. "Imagine. We're on a giant blue marble with seven other planets, all uninhabited, hurling through space at millions of miles an hour, across the galaxy alongside millions untold other galaxies we've yet to know anything about. What a miracle. 'Not a bad life'", etc.
Edit: What I was going to continue on about before I re-read your post was the interpretation of "what is the value of human life to you (in general)?" As in, say, on this planet or in the universe or more broadly, etc. I was almost going to pose the caveat: compared to what? You can value nothing more than the life of a person, yet not view the potential (and inevitable) loss as anything more significant than a yawn or a sneeze. That kind of mindset typically involves some sort of religion or metaphysical belief (reincarnation, etc.). Somewhat tangential to the aforementioned idea of "human life in general" yet relevant to your definition would be say, imagine the most remorseless criminal guilty of the most heinous crimes, all of which were against you or your loved ones personally. You could hate him, wish for him to be executed, etc., but if we were to focus on that "human life in general", it would still have value. Basically there is the "spark of life" vs. "what one chose to do with it" ie. "the individual". I know you did say "a" human life which can seem to boil down to "what do you think about other people (or perhaps people in general, to include yourself)". Not sure if this is your intention.
It was meant in the broadest sense possible so as to include any interpretation. Human life compared to what? To anything else in nature, including other people.
Yes, I see where you are coming from when speaking about the most heinous of criminals. That's a fair point, if difficult to assimilate. But any answer is good really.
Much as I might like to pretend otherwise, I cannot get as worked up about the death toll in Yemen as I am by the death toll from Covid in my own country. I value the existence of humankind - and humankind is made up of human individuals. Politically, it's expedient to uphold human rights, not least, the right to life. But I value the individuals I know, and those over the horizon are somewhat abstract. My life, that of my loved one's, friends, neighbours, colleagues are more important - to me, than those of strangers in strange lands. And I expect, they feel much the same way. All of which suggests that they are best placed to govern themselves, and we to take care of ourselves.
"Some only care about their own lives."
"To care" is a verb related to the word Mattering. It is actually an action - an activity carried out by the carer. It is sharply limited. One can only care so much. If you care about one person you can not care ten times as much by ten.
Also caring is a mental mechanism that exists physiologically in human minds and was evolved because caring is highly pro survival. Heavy caring can indirectly produce real actions liking clearing the snow off the walk or locking all the doors or advocating against racism.
Depends on the human. Some non-human lives are more valuable than some human lives.
The actual importance we ascribe to a life increases to the degree they are part of our life (as opposed to a theoretical, abstraction). There will soon be 8 billion people; an estimated 150,000 of us die every day--all sorts of causes. To their family and friends, each of these lives and deaths is significant. Outside of that circle, not so much.
Still, we try to put some force behind abstract, theoretical valuations of persons. We do that more to protect economic and political stability more than protecting individual relationships among small circles of friends. We do that because we know stability and security are protective of individuals--particularly ourselves and our small circle of friends.
Do I highly value people I know? Of course. Do I highly value the people who I know only from a headline, "33 people killed in a Bagdad market bomb blast." Honestly, no, but not because I de-value them. There just isn't the necessary connection of personal knowledge.
I don't know about other people, but I don't have the capacity to feel badly about 150,000 individuals dying.
Hillel the Elder expresses it best: "That which is hateful to you do not do to another."
It is a bit complicated. The best way to express the value of human life can be approximated by:
Limit of (cos(x-2)/x^sin(x-e)/(x^i ))(as x approaches zero)
It is precise to four significant digits. I am sorry I could not be more exactingly precise than that.
000000000000000
Seriously speaking:
"What is the value of human life?" is the wrong question. It is comparable to "what is the value of God", or "what is the value of time".
If you want to take the question with a quasi-positivistic attitude or stance, then sure it is the wrong question, or a poorly phrased one. But if you don't approach it in this manner, then you can say things about it.
You ask, what is the value of God? I say, I don't believe in God. But I can say that plenty of people do, and to many, such a concept makes life bearable given otherwise miserable conditions. So in this respect, it would rank quite highly on lists of things with value. But it also has a negative side, what with all the fanaticism and intolerance, so in a final cost-benefit view framework, it has little value to me.
What is the value of time? Interesting question. From the most general perspective possible, time is that which allows anything to have value, for if there is no time, you can't value anything. Likewise, most people would like to live a relatively long time, instead of a short one. If we talk about physics, time is problematic in that it's not clear how it fits in with modern theories, as pointed out by Lee Smolin. So its "value" in this domain is not clear.
And so on.
All life is sacred. Therefore every life has an equal value. So the cow that was part of my dinner had the same value as my life. As does the jackrabbit, and all the other creatures moving around. Human life is more relatable to me than animal life, but not more valuable. Every life has equal value, the penalty attached to the ending of a life is very different depending on the species that dies. No one objects to someone killing a mosquito (except the mosquito), more object to the death of a mouse, rat, or gopher (but still not that many) and as the perceived value of the animal increases in the view of humans the number of objectors also increases, until we get to people, then we have special names for the killing of people: Murder. Because it is so bad it gets it's own word, and section in the criminal code. But really, ending a life is ending a life. People=bunnies=whales=cats=bugs. the one dying is rarely supporting of the killing.
Then it would be unethical to save a C-patient, because you would be killing a large number of C-viruses.
What chores for other people is worth saving a life?
Closely related, what chores for productive people are worth increasing standard for non-productive people?
Which of these scenarios is most preferable? The vast majority would elect that option A) Kill the tapeworms so that the patient may live comfortably and healthy. Certainly so if one's primary concern is the patient. Option B) should be chosen if the goal is maximizing life as there is no death involved. Option C) is only really of value to someone who can't be bothered to be involved. As for which is the most ethical...again, what are you striving to achieve? That answer will guide your treatment plan.
OK, let's better take an example with rats. If we don't kill them, they will eventually attack our children. Who would say that the life of a rat is worth as much as that of his child?
The whole question is wrong. The question is not about value, but: What should we do?
That question is based on values. I value my kid more than I value rats, therefore the rats die. I value my kid more than many other people in my life, therefore, if it comes down to it, my kid lives, they die. If my kid suddenly becomes evil, then I no longer value him as much, then he dies while others, more deserving, live. All of this is based on perceived values. If the decision is mine to make, my values take precedence over other's. IF not mine to make, do not consult me on the issue. However, values will still guide the decision model.
Also, this is a bold assumption. Rats will eat people, but not as an opener, more of a last resort.
What you are saying about the comparison is of course correct. But a "value" suggests something that can be expressed in dollars.
Sure, I can say that my child's life is worth more than the life of a rat, but I can't give an absolute value, but maybe a relative one.
A value is a quantity. When I order things, it is an order. On the question "enemy or family" I will probably prefer family most of the time. :)
And the thing about the unvalue of money is hypocritical. What else do people work for?
I put it to you: if tomorrow you woke with a substantial amount in the bank, enough to live comfortably for the rest of your life (whatever amount that would be), would you cease working entirely, stay where you are, or change your employment for something more satisfying? I would change to something more satisfying and would continue as I have been. Work, increase my education, and so forth.
What would your pizza delivery company say if you explained to them that money is not important and that you want the pizza for free. The matter is a lie.
What I would do if I had an "infinite" amount of money, I cannot answer that, it is too far removed from my situation, but certainly not working all day.
As for the pizza example, if I ordered the pizza and then said I want the pizza for free, that makes me a dick. However, If I called and said I will pay you what I think it's worth, I would have a pizza delivered to me by a number of pizzerias.
Also I did not say that money is unimportant. We need it to acquire necessities. I said that outside of that requirement, it holds little value in and of itself. If my needs were taken care of I could easily give my entire wage to people who have more use for it than I. There would be no reason to hold on to it.
Okay, so you want to assign a different meaning to "value" which is not actually value, but something different.
In order to have an intelligent discussion about it, then YOU must tell US what your new, improved meaning of the word "value" is, by which we must measure life.
You simply said, "if you don't approach it in this manner". So what is the manner I should approach it in?
Clearly, you asked an open-ended question, where the parameters themselves are not clear. Value can be anything of a metric? Or not even that much constraint?
I actually see the point in your question: it is a good general discussion-generator. Everyone talks about something that comes to their mind, and if they talk about completely incongruent things to each other's topics, then it's okay too. Yes, there is that kind of philosophy as well as the kind that concerns itself with proofs, truths and convergence. The stream of consciousness, with no goalposts, no aim, no common ground.
Carry on. Please ignore my post.
"Okay, so you want to assign a different meaning to "value" which is not actually value, but something different."
I did not know that "value" was the kind of word which had only one meaning. I thought "value" could refer to several meanings including prices, ethics or a mathematical object.
It never occurred to me that "my" definition of value had to improve on traditional uses of the word when it is used in conversations about manifest reality. Clearly there is no common ground here, as people aren't replying to each other in a thoughtful manner.
"Yes, there is that kind of philosophy as well as the kind that concerns itself with proofs, truths and convergence."
There sure is. And if you stick to it and use it as the guide by which intelligent questions can be asked, then you leave out of it the vast majority of life. By all means feel free to start a thread about a new and improved meaning of the word "value", with a "goalpost" in sight. I would be much interested in seeing how that would work out.
I would gladly ignore posts that were empty of words.
You are right: you don't have to manufacture a meaning for "value". There are many, many different meanings. So then please tell me which of the many meanings you want us to use.
Without any guidance, my meaning was correct, I did not detour from the dictionary meaning. You refuse to tell us the dictionary or philosophical meaning of "value" you want us to use.
Therefore the discussion is wildly divergent. Anyone can use any meaning to value, and I ought not to be denied the meaning of "value" whatever of its dictionary meanings I chose.
Except... except, you said:
Quoting Manuel
So the manner of using my choice of value is not valid in this discussion.
Therefore I have to ask you to please tell me: WHAT MANNER OF CHOICE {of the many possible meanings of the word "value"} IS VALID IN THIS DISCUSSION?
It annoys me a bit that I had to ask the same question, and that I had to EXPLAIN IN FINE DETAIL why I needed to ask the same question. And please, for the sake of humanity, do answer the question now.
Dictionary definitions do not come close to exhausting the meaning words. We'll end up defining words by other words in endless wordplay. You can choose to define value as "intrinsic worth", but then you'll reply nothing has intrinsic value.
Alternatively, you can think of value as: how should the life of an "average human being" be considered in terms of importance to you.
If that's not enough for you, then there's not much more to say.
Thank you.
I believe intrinsic worth exists.
I believe importance exists, and I believe that the average person is important.
However... how do I assign a metric? You asked "What is the value of a human life to you?" That is, "What is the importance of a human life to you?" and "What is the intrinsic worth of human life to you?"
As god is my witness, I can't in good conscience answer these questions. Others may be able to, but I can't. At least not in good conscience. Not when it comes to deciding what to give up to retain a human life.
On the other hand, importance and intrinsic worth is not something that I have to exchange for something else of equal importance and equal intrinsic worth. I can utilize such things, for instance, the importance of a car is to carry me from one place to another, and the intrinsic worth of a car is its ability to help me gain distance over time.
In this vein, the importance of human life is that I can cooperate with them, form societies, with all societies' amenities. There are social, emotional, and life-sustaining aspects in the importance of the life of a human being. Similar to their intrinsic worth.
The context in which I ask the question is because it seems to me that whatever value or worth or significance a person has is being cast into doubt, at least by me, given how a large portion of the population in "developed" countries are behaving within this pandemic.
If people know the risks of going out to large social gatherings or sporting events and they don't mind dying or possibly killing someone, then I'm OK with it, so long as everyone consents to that activity. The problem is that many infected likely did not consent to others doing as they pleased.
But then this pushes the issue to a larger perspective, in which now we care about "our safety", when prior to the pandemic issues like the War on Yemen, Sanctions on Iran and anything else you can think of that doesn't apply to "the West", is just sidelined as if these things aren't that important. Sure. There are plenty of exceptions, people doing good work, getting informed, informing others, etc.
But it causes me to question how valuable we actually think people are in general. I often get the impression that it's not much.
My impression is that the value of a human life depends on who you ask. A lot of variables play into how much a person values another, like familial relations, kindness, and memorability of another person. It is hard for me to say if, in general, humans tend to see each other as less or more valuable than they should be, since I view value as a relative measure. On one level, I am not sure what the general consensus is of Earth’s population on the matter, so it is likely hard to assess in an objective manner how much humans value each other.
I place a stick of wood on the fire only to notice that, soon afterwards, driven by the heat, an army of ants I did not know resided there begins feverishly scurrying about, hoping to find a safe passage out for their queen. Upon discovering no such avenue, and pressed by the circumstances, many leap into the void and are vaporized by the fire, much like those human beings who leapt from the Twin Towers on that fateful day...
My girlfriend cries out to me from the laundry room: a snake has cornered her there, his head protruding from underneath the door. I have no choice but to cut it off with the tip of a forcefully driven spade shovel, much like the sword that severed Cicero’s head from his body as he hung it out, bearing it to his assassins...
Finally, a gadfly alights upon me, and I swat it with the alacrity that the Athenian jury swatted Socrates, their gadfly, for questioning their accepted beliefs...
Mere life, friends, has little value, whether human or animal. It can only borrow value from something higher than itself which it sustains.