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In which order should these philosophers be read?

deusidex January 18, 2021 at 17:42 13250 views 42 comments
I want to read the following books:

  • Critique of Pure Reason by Kant
  • The World as Will and Representation by Schopenhauer
  • Either/Or by Kierkegaard
  • Being and Time by Heidegger


My question is, in which order should I read them? Should I read them from the beginning till the ending like fiction books or only parts? I have only read some dialogues by Plato. Would I understand these philosophers without reading anyone else?

Comments (42)

counterpunch January 18, 2021 at 17:54 #490227
Generally, I start on page 1 and go from there!

Seriously though, chronologically - by year of publication!
Deleted User January 18, 2021 at 18:10 #490233
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
ChatteringMonkey January 18, 2021 at 18:15 #490234
Reply to deusidex

Hume is missing, I'd read some of him first. And yes I'd always just start with Plato, if you haven't already.

counterpunch January 18, 2021 at 18:33 #490240
Reply to ChatteringMonkey

Kant is very difficult to read. It's probably better to get a book about Kant than a book by him. Schopenhauer was a terrible person who wrote terrible philosophy.
Kierkegaard is at least entertaining.
Heidegger is too heavy with the jargon. In order to understand Heidegger, you have to accept Heidegger. All that 'being in the world' bollocks drove me nuts.
But all in all, a finer collection of subjectivists, metaphysical nutjobs and sexual deviants has never been assembled! What's missing is epistemologists. Locke, Moore, Ayer, Bohm - and Hume.
I'd read chronologically, to understand the development of philosophy - and where further reading can be placed in that order.
deusidex January 18, 2021 at 18:44 #490241
Reply to counterpunch So which works of them would you recommend? Sorry, I'm just really confused. I'm a psychology student, I read Dostoevsky and Kafka. Their works made me curious of existentialism. I want to educate myself in philosophy and I'm wondering from where to start and what to read exactly.
Echarmion January 18, 2021 at 18:52 #490246
Reply to deusidex

Kant is fine to just read directly if you're used to long and compex sentences and if you're fine with getting the gist of the philosophy rather than trying to follow the entire argument step-by-step. If you do want to understand it step by step, you'll probably need some kind of glossary of terms (or make one while you read) to get all the connections.

A good way to figure out whether you want to directly read Kant is to read his "groundwork of the metaphysics of morals". It technically comes after the critique of pure reason, but it's a relatively short, accessible and self-contained text.

Also just starting out with a general history of philosophy will get you exposed to a lot of ideas in a short time, so that you can better place the primary texts when you read them.
ChatteringMonkey January 18, 2021 at 18:56 #490247
Reply to deusidex

Plato, Hume, Nietzsche and then straight to existentialist if that is your interest... i'd skip all the rest.

Hume, "an inquiry concerning human understanding", his later book (not the big tome) is enough to get a decent understanding of his philosophy.

Nietzsche, "Genealogy of morals", and "beyond Good and Evil", are maybe the two books that I definitely would read.
counterpunch January 18, 2021 at 18:58 #490248
Reply to deusidex Just read - anything, everything. Make up your own damn mind. The books you've cited all lead to a very left wing, subjectivist, metaphysical understanding. To be fair - it's the majority of philosophy. But there are exceptions. Read Atlas Shrugged - see what you make of that. Read - Rawls: A Theory of Justice, but then read Nozick: Anarchy, State and Utopia. I hate metaphysics in general, and existentialism in particular, but read it anyway. Just read.
fdrake January 18, 2021 at 19:29 #490262
If you're reading it in terms of who reacts to who:

Schopenhauer reacts to Kant.
Heidegger reacts to Kierkegaard and Kant and Schopenhauer (though I can't remember if his Schop or Kierkegaard reaction is in being and time).

So probably: Kant, Schopenhauer, Kierkegaard, Heidegger.
fdrake January 18, 2021 at 19:31 #490263
Quoting counterpunch
he books you've cited all lead to a very left wing,


>Includes Heidegger (Nazi) and Schopenhauer (Pessimist conservative).

:roll:
fdrake January 18, 2021 at 19:33 #490265
Reply to deusidex

Forgot to say, if you're trying to find your way around philosophy, check out the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy and the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy - they're free, extensive, peer reviewed and up to date. Introductory sections in them tend not to be mercilessly technical either (except formal logic articles).
Garth January 18, 2021 at 21:17 #490322
I say to read them in the order you listed them. But I would also read Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit after Schopenhauer, and listen along to the Bernstein tapes. I say this because Hegel utterly demolishes Kant, seting up a new philosophical framework that is rather thought provoking, imho.
deusidex January 18, 2021 at 21:20 #490324
Thanks all. Plato and Seneca really got me into philosophy while Dostoevsky and existential psychology made me want to learn about existentialism. I think I will start with Kant then continue with Schopenhauer, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche and Heidegger.
180 Proof January 18, 2021 at 21:20 #490325
Reply to deusidex

(instead of CPR)

A. Prolegomena to Any Future Metaphysics
(esp. from § 57 onward), Immanuel Kant

B. The World As Will And Representation
(esp. "Appendix: Critique of the Kantian philosophy", vol. 1), Arthur Schopenhauer

(instead of E/O or BT)

C. The Life of the Mind, Hannah Arendt
Wayfarer January 18, 2021 at 22:27 #490358
There's a pretty good online version of Prolegomena here.

Leghorn January 19, 2021 at 00:27 #490390
@deusidex There is no particular order in which you should read the philosophers...or rather, the order should be determined in this way...

When you, inquisitive soul that you are, frequenting libraries and bookstores, have found a certain one that has impressed upon you that he holds the key to understanding life and the world you live in, then of course you will dwell with him a while and absorb his wisdom and attempt to live according to his (or her) precepts. Invariably, he will reveal in his writings those who have influenced him, and, should you sense that his ideas are lacking, or spurred on to investigate the origins of his thought, you will read those and, perhaps, supplant his thought with one of them...

This typically continues through a couple of iterations until you find the soul that you will trust in for the rest of your life.

deusidex January 19, 2021 at 01:28 #490402
Reply to Todd Martin But as you and others suggested, they reacted to one another. So there is a continuation, one is inspired by the other before him. For this reason, I have been searching and trying to make a list of writers which of course, represent my interests and taste as well. After reading more comments and history of philosophy, I think this list might be good for me: Hume, Kant, Schopenhauer, Kirkegaard, Nietzsche, Heidegger, Sartre, Beauvoir and Camus. To me, the thing is that my philosophy readings need to be somewhat psychological since that's what I'm interested in and enjoy reading. Also, I want to understand them and learn, so I wish to start with the philosophers that had a profound influence on the 19th and 20th-century existentialists.
Streetlight January 19, 2021 at 01:31 #490403
Quoting deusidex
Hume, Kant, Schopenhauer, Kirkegaard, Nietzsche, Heidegger, Sartre, Beauvoir and Camus.


This is a good list. However, you ought to be prepared by a rather large jump in the order of difficulty once you reach Heidegger. I'd suggest looking around for some secondary reading to help you as well. Richard Polt's intro is particularly good.
deusidex January 19, 2021 at 02:40 #490415
Reply to StreetlightX So until Heidegger, no other writer needed than those I listed? I'm familiar with Plato, Heraclitus and Seneca but probably among these only Plato needed. I'm not really interested in Aristotle and Descartes so that's why I skip them. I suppose reading a summary about them could prove to be enough in my case.
Streetlight January 19, 2021 at 02:48 #490416
Reply to deusidex It depends. Kant is by no means easy for someone who has not read alot of philosophy before, and neither Kierkegaard nor Nietzsche are a walk in the park. Heidegger just happens to be on another level entirely. The only way to know is to dive in and just read and see how your fare.
deusidex January 19, 2021 at 03:14 #490420
Reply to StreetlightX If you have any suggestions, I'd be grateful to hear it. I got Montaigne and Pascal at home and I see Descartes' magnum opus is not lengthy at all so I might read it as well. I plan to read Kant's easier works first such as the Prolegomena, hope that could make him more accessible to me.
Streetlight January 19, 2021 at 03:37 #490425
Reply to deusidex For relative beginners, I'm always a fan of comparative introductions, so you get a feel for the contexts between different philosophers, the wider debates in which which they participated (and more importantly, the difference between those debates and contexts, which is not something always available if you're reading single authors). To that end, there are two book I might recommend to help 'situate' the philosophers you're interested in -

First, Sarah Blakwell's At The Existentialist Cafe, which covers most of the major existentialists in a very accessible and entertaining way. Second, Raymond Geuss's Changing the Subject, which covers a bunch of Western philosophy beginning with Socrates and ending with Adorno (Heidegger and Nietzsche are in there too). The only problem with these suggestions is that neither Kant nor Schopenhauer are covered. Schopenhauer is readable on his own though. Kant I really don't know. Most of the secondary works on him I know are big and dry.
deusidex January 19, 2021 at 04:03 #490435
Reply to StreetlightX Thanks for the help. I got Socrates to Sartre by Samuel Enoch Stumpf which covers Kant and the rest above. That might come in handy. Also, I heard David W. Hamlyn's History of Western Philosophy is great as well but I don't know it yet.
Leghorn January 19, 2021 at 22:33 #490709
@deusidex just a couple admonitions...

Are you reading translations or do you read in the originals?...because you can’t trust translators, who tend to translate key words differently in different contexts, or, worse, interpret what they think the author meant. There is, however, a tradition of literal translation, from William of Moerbeke to the 20th century Straussians, so I would recommend you either (worse) read good literal translations, or (better) learn the original languages.

Finally, just remember in your study of philosophy, that any learning not motivated by the felt need to understand how the world works and the meaning of life is mere pedantry.
deusidex January 19, 2021 at 23:49 #490730
Reply to Todd Martin So to read and understand Kant, Nietzsche, Heidegger and other German philosophers, I should learn to speak German? English is not my native language. I read translations always except when the author wrote in English because I can read in English, but definitely not in German nor French. Do you have any suggestion on this matter?

I'm absolutely motivated by that, I can get really focused while reading philosophy. It fascinates me and I enjoy learning.
Leghorn January 20, 2021 at 01:14 #490755
@deusidex Are you good at learning languages? Not just the spoken ones, but the “dead” ones? Then I suggest you do. If you’re young you have plenty of time...but Tolstoy began to learn Greek in his eighties (!).

Otherwise, seek out the literal translations. There was an efflorescence of them in the 20th century by disciples of Leo Strauss in English. Allan Bloom did an excellent one of Plato’s Republic and Rousseau’s Emile. Harvey Mansfield translated Tocqueville’s Democracy in America literally late last century...

But you cannot trust the translators for, as I said, they tend to interpret rather than translate. As far as German translations go, I have no personal knowledge.

Heracloitus January 20, 2021 at 08:12 #490821
It takes years to learn a language to the level needed to read philosophical texts. At this rate the poor guy will never get started.
deusidex January 20, 2021 at 14:17 #490869
Reply to emancipate Out of curiosity, which language(s) should be learned to read philosophical texts? I could read Hume and other English philosophers at least but it's true that I'm more interested in the Germans and their language seems like a pretty hard to tackle.
Heracloitus January 20, 2021 at 14:26 #490870
Reply to deusidex perhaps you meant to highlight Reply to Todd Martin

In any case, you can cover most of the modern Western Canon (Descartes onwards) with English, French and German. Bonne courage.
deusidex January 20, 2021 at 14:34 #490872
Reply to emancipate Aside from philosophy graduates and professors, why should one learn three different languages for the sake of philosophy? No offense but cannot philosophy be comprehended by reading translations? What is the general notion of this?
Heracloitus January 20, 2021 at 14:58 #490873
Reply to deusidex read back through the posts and you will see that I am the one who said it was overkill.
deusidex January 20, 2021 at 15:10 #490874
Reply to emancipate Yeah so for a student from another field than philosophy, I suppose it's fine to read philosophy in translations.
Streetlight January 20, 2021 at 15:11 #490875
There is zero need to read philosophical texts in the original unless you are getting paid for it.
magritte January 20, 2021 at 15:16 #490877
Quoting deusidex
cannot philosophy be comprehended by reading translations?


Western philosophy almost entirely consists of discussions on minor points made by Plato. To appreciate any of this one must first read Plato and Platonic commentary to help sort out philosophical history, issues, representations and misrepresentations.

Ancient Greek is an impossible read for nonspecialists, therefore we are wholly reliant on arguable translations and interpretation of arguable translation. There is plenty of first rate commentary available via the internet in English but even then philosophical keywords must be parenthesized from the original Greek and all possible meanings be sufficiently researched from dictionaries and footnotes of commentaries.

The process above is minimal to make any sense of the enormous amount of philosophical output we see today. For example, Plato exposed but did not sufficiently distinguish acquaintance, opinion, wisdom, knowledge, and partial versions of each. At which point can we make any sense when using words that refer to these concepts? Are these in motion or fixed, psychological or public, subjective or objective? What are we naming? In practice, a clear modern exposition of a sentence from the Meno or the Theaetetus has made many a professional carrier.
deusidex January 20, 2021 at 18:37 #490909
Reply to magritte That's really mindblowing. I have only read 5 dialogues by Plato but I plan to read more Platonic dialogues after reading Epictetus. Haven't read the Republic though. From what I read on forums, feels like Plato is very underemphasized in the everyday thought also in other academic fields.
Leghorn January 20, 2021 at 23:13 #491004
@deusidex My recommendation regarding an English reader of Plato: firstly, “The Roots of Political Philosophy: Ten Forgotten Platonic Dialogues”, edited by Thomas L. Pangle. This compilation is an excellent representation of the Straussians, in which they not only give us some very good and literal translations, but also lay out their notions of translation and explain its rationale. Also included are commentaries, by each translator, on each dialogue.

Secondly, Allan Bloom’s translation of The Republic. I would guess there are extant translations of many of the other Dialogues by this school, but I am unaware of them.

Oh! If you read the Symposium, read the translation of Seth Benardete.
god must be atheist January 21, 2021 at 00:11 #491023
Quoting deusidex
I want to read the following books:

Critique of Pure Reason by Kant
The World as Will and Representation by Schopenhauer
Either/Or by Kierkegaard
Being and Time by Heidegger

My question is, in which order should I read them? Should I read them from the beginning till the ending like fiction books or only parts? I have only read some dialogues by Plato. Would I understand these philosophers without reading anyone else?


My advice: read them in alphabetical order. Makes referring to the content much easier that way.
deusidex January 21, 2021 at 00:19 #491028
Reply to god must be atheist Wow! Really? What a troll.
Leghorn January 21, 2021 at 00:38 #491034
@magritte I disagree with you...

Wester philosophy doesn’t consist of discussions of MINOR points made by Plato, but rather MAJOR ones. For example, when he described the philosopher as a naked man taking cover behind a little wall to escape the slings and arrows directed toward him, the Enlighteners took this as a call to arms...to transform political life in order to protect the philosopher.

“Ancient Greek”, you say, “is an impossible read for nonspecialists”. By “nonspecialists” do you mean those who cannot read Ancient Greek? If so, agree. But anyone with a knack for languages can learn to read it in a year or so of constant study. As far as the uncertainty of the meanings of Greek words goes, this can only be cleared up by continuing on to read enough variety of the extant literature, Homer, Plato, Xenophon, Aristophanes, Euripides, Thucydides, etc, so that, just as in your native language, you come to learn the various shades of meaning, and how they evolved over the centuries...

In doing this, you will, of course, become immersed in Ancient Greek culture, put yourself so-to-speak in Homer’s or Xenophon’s shoes. This is truly respecting another’s culture, when you study it so assiduously that you actually hope and expect to learn something about life from it. In contrast, the modern “respect for cultures” does not animate a soul to want to know anything about any particular one, to long to learn anything about past times or places...other than the saccharine moral that “we should all just get along”.

thewonder January 21, 2021 at 02:02 #491047
Reply to deusidex
The World as Will and as Representation, you can read without any prerequisites, though it can be difficult to understand.

Either/Or, you can read without any prerequisites.

Critique of Pure Reason is a place to start for a general understanding of modern philosophy. There are a few, though.

If you're preparing to read Being and Time, I don't think that you have chosen the correct texts. He references a number of other philosophers in it, but I can't remember which. I'd bet that there's a way to find out, though.

If you're preparing to read Being and Nothingness, just read Being and Time. You only have to understand so much of Being and Time to understand Being and Nothingness.

deusidex January 21, 2021 at 02:33 #491057
Reply to thewonder Thank you. I read that Kant's Prolegomena is easier to read than his Critique of Pure Reason. Also, I'm more interested in metaphysics and in texts that are somewhat related to psychology and ask "why"-s than in rigorous methodical texts.
thewonder January 21, 2021 at 02:38 #491060
Reply to deusidex
I'll just tell you not to learn anything about the history of Philosophy and to just get into Gilles Deleuze, but I'm not too sure that I would listen to myself.